Heart Rate zones for VO2 Max effort

Training
1

Hey TR community.

Two weeks ago Cayuga came up on my schedule and it beat me at just under half way it felt like the end of a ramp test where you have nothing left. I had to decrease the intensity by 10% to continue on to the end. Last night I faced my second V02 max workout - Big Draft. To my surprise I nailed it and quite comfortably. Big draft is 4x12.5 min sets of 30second repeats at 131% FTP. When I reviewed the data I was extremely surprised to see my max heartrate was 141 bpm with an average of 121 bpm. I would say this data correlated to my output effort and was consistent with my watch. It was tough for the last set but certainly not all out.
My set up consists of:
Wahoo Kickr V5 via Bluetooth connection set in ERG mode
Garmin Heart Rate Strap - via Ant +
Garmin Forerunner 265 (only used for HR verification)
Gears configuration - Crank 36 ring, Cassette 17 tooth ring

The review of the workout said 72.6% of it was in zone 2. How can this be for a V02 workout, I would expect to be in zone 4. on review Cayuga was similar in terms of HR zone.

2

Something is way off there, I just searched for Cayuga and its a Level 9.6 for a VO2 Max workout (IF of 0.98) and I’m not surprised you had to decrease it by 10% to finish, but even with the decrease I would have expected your HR to be high before it and still high after it. FWIW my VO2 max workout last night (only a level 3.9) saw my average HR at 149bpm (76%) and max at 179bpm (92%) and have an overall IF of just 0.84.

3

TR’s VO2 workouts are pretty variable in terms of whether they actually provide much VO2 stimulus. Some do. Some don’t. If you want to optimize your stimulus you’ll have to make adjustments to the workouts (adjust % or just drop ERG) and/or start selecting the workouts yourself based on what gets your HR and RR up high.

4

Good questions here..

First, where are you seeing that 72.6% of Big Draft was in Z2?

Here’s what I’m seeing for that workout.

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Here’s the data for Cayuga.

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Being in a recovery/endurance power zone for ~50% of a high-intensity workout is pretty normal, especially as they start to get longer over that 60-90 minute barrier, like these are. There’s no way you could spend the majority of a 75-minute workout in the VO2 Max or Anaerobic training zone. :melting_face:

Those on/off style workouts were designed partly to enable you to spend a good amount of time in the VO2 Max training zone without the amount of fatigue built up that you might accrue from a traditional VO2 workout. You may still get some HR drift towards the end of each block, but it likely won’t be as extreme as in longer 4 or 5-minute intervals.

It looks like you failed Cayuga due to intensity, but then marked Big Draft as “moderate” in effort, which is a bit strange given that there isn’t a major difference between the two (intervals at 131% vs 134%). I know when you’re that high above FTP, each percent matters, but that’s a pretty big difference in RPE between the two.

I wonder if there was something hindering your performance during Cayuga. It was right after a yellow day, and Big Draft was five days after your last red or yellow day. Maybe you were fresh? Maybe there was an equipment issue? Are you recording data with your watch, or just looking at it during the workout for data comparison?

In terms of HR data, how have you calculated your zones? It can be tough to get accurate HR zones, and they change over time, so it’s important to keep them updated and accurate each season.

Also, how do your HR strap and watch compare in terms of data? You mention using your watch for “HR verification,” but I wouldn’t trust an optical HR sensor over an electrical one. If the two read closely, that’s great, but if they don’t, I’d trust the strap over the watch.

5

Hit the power target.

I’ve never seen “zone 5” HR on a zone 5 power interval because of HR lag – unless the interval is 6-8 minutes long. For a 3-5 min interval, I’d always see HR peak at LTHR or maybe a couple of beats higher, and that’s it. Granted, I wasn’t trying to be a hero on every interval, just hit the middle of zone 5 power or slightly over it (I think repeatability is more important than hero efforts). When my LTHR was 153, if I hit that after 3 minutes and held it for 1 more, then that was around 400w, when my FTP was 340. If I did an hour of power, I’d see that LTHR after about 15-20min and then it would just stay there.

Lag is real. Hit the power target,

If you’re in shape enough to do zone 5 and not be destroyed by it, you might not see high HR.

6

And you might be leaving a ton of gains on the table.

Or maybe not.

If the power targets assume you’re a kinda average athlete, but in fact you have a freakish anaerobic capacity, your intervals will be too easy, even if you’re not in brilliant shape.

7

Unfortunately for efforts >ftp the power target is vastly different from one ride to another.

If you are attempting to actually elicit vo2 max you are probably better off ignoring power and adjusting the workout to target a rapid move into vo2 max, hold it there, rest then repeat.

As an anaerobically gifted athlete the power zone that tr uses for vo2 max (106-120%) is far too low to actually elicit vo2 max for me.

I typically do a 4-5x6m as a solid but tough vo2 max workout, but I do those at 130% of ftp or more…

I don’t currently use tr so maybe they have a bunch of 130% or higher vo2 max intervals now but they definitely didn’t last I used it.

8

Do you know what your power at V02 max is from a lab test?

9

Yes.

10

So what is the argument here?

I observed that HR lag makes HR not the best measure, and that it’s better to hit a repeatable power target to accumulate time in zone.

Offering that I used to target a percentage of FTP does not mean I was prescribing that percentage for everyone.

11

Only if that power actually elicits vo2 max, which like I said above is not a guarantee and is highly variable between riders.

12

Again, I never specified a specific power range.

You’re inventing an argument to win it.

Of course it’s variable by athlete.

13

Hitting the power target is great, as long as that power target actually elicits vo2 max. As I said in my original response I don’t know of any tr workouts that would do that for me.

IMO it’s simpler to target the feeling that you get during vo2 max and get there regardless of power.

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