Got fired by my coach

What is?

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Not really. Maybe it is your understanding of what they have said that makes it seem like the opposite, but it is not. Even if they had, TRs like anyone else’s is just an opinion it doesn’t automatically make it right (or wrong.)

They have as far as I know never said long rides aren’t beneficial. They have just said they are not absolutely essential. Not the same thing.

I seem to remember them saying things along the lines of you don’t need to ride 60 - 100 miles to ride 100 miles in an event, however it is useful for fueling, strength in position etc.
Which is correct, however, that doesn’t mean omitting long work ‘appropriate’ for the duration of the event (whatever that means for the individual) is optimal and longer work is of no real benefit.

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Maybe I should rephrase my real question…what would the different expected outcomes be for replacing the Sunday sweet spot ride with a 5 hr endurance ride? Would you be a different ‘type’ of cyclist? Exact same power profile but higher ftp?

For me it’s about spending more time in the race below your first lactate threshold. (I know it never feels like you’re riding there in a cross race but there’s always moments in between your on/off efforts where you are technically in those lower zones).

Your FTP may or may not improve but if you move your lower threshold up 30 watts then you have way more capacity left for the hard efforts.

Eg in this race, shifting my Lt1 from Z2 to Z3 means an extra 5 mins where I wouldn’t be adding to my blood lactate levels.

Uh…what do you mean by lower threshold?

Aerobic Threshold - LT1

as opposed to

Anaerobic Threshold - LT2 (~FTP, MLSS etc)


Ref: The True Definition of Threshold - Fast Talk Laboratories

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What Is The Lactate Threshold (LT)?
Put simply, the lactate threshold is the point at which your body can no longer maintain equilibrium between lactate production and clearance (1). The current trend in exercise physiology is to split the lactate threshold into two parts, LT1 and LT2.
LT1 is typically recognized as the workload (given in watts) corresponding to a sustained increase in blood lactate concentration above resting levels (typically below 2.0 mmol/L) during progressive exercise (see graphic below).
LT2 is the workload corresponding to a rapid rise in blood lactate signifying the upper limit of sustainable exercise, typically around a blood lactate concentration of 4.0 mmol/L (see graphic below).

From here:

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One stimulus of going long is the shear number of muscle contractions, fatiguing slow twitch muscles, and training the faster twitch muscles to work aerobically. You are talking about 5 hours vs 1.5 hours.

It’s hard to say what the actual adaptation will be for a particular rider. Some riders though seem to really respond well to volume.

Personally, I’ve tried high volume twice. Once during covid, I was doing lots of 4-5 hour low intensity rides. My FTP didn’t seem to go up but I developed the ability to go all day.

The other time I did a polarized base ramping up from my usual 6 hours to over 13 hours. By week 7-8, my FTP had gone up 20 watts and I was breaking all my PRs. I had also maxed out and didn’t see more gains from that training.

Ideally, you blend it all together - long rides, steady state intervals, and HIIT to achieve the best of all training formats. Unfortunately, most of us have limitations on our time and need to make compromises.


Wait…so there are three different thresholds now lol?

edit: erm…wait, so it seems that maybe FTP and LT2 are exactly the same thing?

I don’t get LT1. It seems like a fancy way of describing sitting vs not sitting…

Yeah so aerobic threshold, VT 1, 2mmol lactate and LT1 are all similar(ish) versions of the first threshold.

Then FTP, LT2 VT2, MLSS and 4mmol lactate are all similar(ish) versions of the second threshold :smiley:

… and here… we … go. :laughing:


Nobody knows, you’ve got to try it. But I’ll stick my neck out again and here is an updated spreadsheet with my data/estimates:

Last year was 400+ hours, which is roughly 8 hours per week. Off to a slow start this year, but still benefiting from a lot of hours in late November and December. Just turned sixty one. Started with spin classes in late 2014, bought a road bike December 2015, and bought a power meter October 2016.

Again, thats my results. Not yours. Your mileage may vary.


Why do RHR figures are in the hundreds?

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lol, added RHR while working on a NDA and brain was in legal land. fixing.

Everything else is coming off various WKO reports like this:


and this:

Seen a pretty good paper that looked at the training distribution of regional vs national level professionals. Only difference in their training was volume of easy work. They did essentially the same absolute amount of intensity.

So the amount of intensity doesn’t need to scale with the volume, but they need to do a set amount of it.

I think you’re cautioning against the idea that volume alone can predict fitness?

Not at all….I am a huge believer in volume.

Again, fitness scales with both volume AND intensity….not volume exclusively, as was stated. How they scale, and the limits of each, are different though.

No, don’t give up your cycling! But your coach is right. She doesn’t want to take your money when she can’t offer you anything in return.
You don’t need a coach to enjoy cycling.
Even if it’s just the odd half an hour round the block!
When your kids are older they may enjoy going out with you.
You can always get back to more serious training later in life.
In the meantime, have fun😎


To add insult to injury, we’re sick again; probably the fourth time since January. And no this isn’t abnormal, pretty much all the families in our local area have been sick off and on since January. It is, however, abnormal in that the weather in our area has been unusually cold and wet which likely accounts for the number of illnesses.

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Why don’t you shift your goals towards other things. Speaking for myself, structured training is incredibly soothing for my brain, it is a form of self-therapy — especially hard indoor sessions and outdoor rides. Indoor endurance rides are fine, but they are my vegetables, I don’t nearly draw as much enjoyment from them as from outdoor endurance rides and other outdoor rides.

This time, at least you are not paying for a coach you can’t use.

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