Feature request : bring back push/pull/delete weeks

Current plan was added manually. I really enjoy researching training information and planning it, that’s part of the whole experience/process.
It’s not the end of the world, I can work my way around it. But felt like the request needed a place on the forum, also as feedback from more users for the TR team.

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Oh please come on! This is awful!

Just tried it by adding a new base phase into my calendar (after months of riding outside, with structure, mind you - but my own). And indeed - no pushing etc. possible anymore. Do you really expect me now to painstakingly pick every single workout and move it along as my needs dictate it? I don’t want to use adaptive training (or just let it trot by passively and may note what it suggests). I want to have Trainerroad staying the versatile tool catering for indoor training it once was.

The way this feature removal pans out is awfully close the way all those social media services push down their algorithms down the throat of their users. “No, you don’t want a linear time feed, We know best what to show you!”

This is aggravating!
Please put this functionality back on!

Absolutely this!

I’m constantly wondering, how much motivation, enthusiasm and knowledge the TR team shows and broadcasts in the Podcasts and yet how narrowminded the product development is pointed seemingly singleminded to a very specific and very narrow picture of a typical time-crunched MAMIL (middle aged men in lycra) and how to best prescribe them a no-brainer-you-just-hop-on-the-trainer program is.

Mind you - they may have user data to back up this by probably a high percentage of their customer base. But that can’t be this overwhelmingly large to completely snub all the rest of the bell curve. The power users as well as every day dad and every day mum who just want to make room for something - be it a single day or a single week.

When I use the TR calendar, I want to push weeks all the time.
Because I may already populate the calendar with maybe part of a plan in advance, or because I put my own plan together with much manual labor and don’t want to lose that work but have the need to postpone the start of that program etc. etc.

I would know a way. Simply put this functionality back on the way as it was.

In regard to the plan builder I’d happily add my old and still standing judgement that this feature is woefully underprepared to build plans because it already falls short at the very start. It simply can’t cater for a very simple request: you wan’t to train 8 to 10 hours (or even more at times) but want to have 2 days not populated by workouts. Or even three. Perfectly valid training plans of this volume with just 4 days a week are possible. With 5 days a week not only possible, but very much the norm.

That even is before the fact that there may be other workouts one want to include and keep space for. Say strength and conditioning.

And it is also completely before the fact that the plan builder still populates the calendar with the known sweet spot base plans and others from the other phases which might or might not be ideal for or wanted by the individual customer.

So no - every functionality you hinge upon that very assumption or even need, that the customer is leveraging Plan Builder is rather wasted for a great deal of people like me where that aformentioned criteria are absolute (and very basic might I add) requirements for Plan Builder to even become remotely considered.

And I also like to add - that would be a way more low hanging fruit than all the time spent for Adaptive Training. What’s not to say that with continuing efforts AT might become really interesting over the medium to long-term future. So please keep experimenting and learning with it - but not to the detriment of users who’s like to put “real” intelligence instead of artificial one to work on their workouts and calendars.

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I’ve run into this myself a couple of times. I have stopped using Plan Builder some time ago as it’s too much of a straight jacket (for example when I try to rebuild my plan from the start, I was getting a ramp new test every time, no matter how recent my last test was). Then, more recently I tried the POL plans, found the progressions too aggressive, so since then I’ve been doing my own thing. I ran into the missing push week functionality a little while ago, but someone pointed out, if I turned off AT, then I would get it back. Then I had reason to use it again, and I got a pop up when I clicked on the meatballs asking me to use annotations. Well, they don’t work - they just overlap my workouts. I turned off AT and the push/pull/delete menu options are gone there as well now.

The work-around I used yesterday was thus to start at the last planned week I have and use “move week” to push everything out by one week. To be fair, that took less time than writing this post, as I have only planned out to the end of the year. :grinning:

If I wanted to try out plan builder and see what it came up with, where do I stand now? Previous behaviour was that your plan builder plan would overlap manually added workouts. So to get to the stage where the calendar looks ok with the new plan in place and I can check it out properly… do I have to go and delete my 42 scheduled workouts one at a time (with a modal popup each time warning me there is no undo, so about 84 clicks).

Then I tell Plan Builder that my A race is a 36h ride in May, which it decides has negative 150 TSS, it builds out a plan. But I decide I don’t like the plan, so I delete it, and have to have planned for this eventuality and made a record of what was there before so I can put it back, because there’s no going back (which is what the modal warns about 42 times above).

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While I can understand the reasons for removing this functionality, I don’t think it was the right thing to do.
I know there were problems before with push/pull and plan builder plans in that once you’d messed with the schedule you got a dialog saying you wouldn’t be able to modify the plan in the future.

Surely a better way would have been for a warning dialog stating something like:

You have a scheduled event. Pushing your plan out a week will mean the plan extending past your event. Please choose from the following options…

  1. Push the week with no adaptations to your plan.
  2. Push the week but let AT adapt your plan accordingly.
  3. Cancel.

Surely this is one of those things that AT/PB should be able to cope with anyway: I’ve a week less/more, rearrange my training plan.

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+1 for having it back

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Not one to complain about TR functionality, but this is just irritating.

Laying out my annual training plan and just discovered that I can’t copy or clear weeks. This was a really nice piece of functionality for people who aren’t down with your Plan Builder, and I would assume this piece of functionality wouldn’t go away.

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Funny enough, looking now… when you hit the week ellipsis, you get this message to start:

image

Followed by this:

image

So the Copy / Move tools remain, even in the context of a live Plan Builder based plan… which seems interesting to me considering the rationale listed for removing Push/Pull.

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But did you notice there are scenarios where if you have any workouts scheduled on that week the ellipses button disappears. So you can’t actually copy or move anything. My only thought is that this is because it’s a custom workout…but that is a bizarre rationale.

That sounds familiar and like what they used to offer. Those tools were not present for the current week, so you would have to Push the next week first, then manually shift the current one (assuming Move was the goal).

I forgot that Copy was removed with that too, so would force a manual copy/paste of each individual one in that instance.

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Except that functionality is also gone…You can’t actually copy the workout to move or repeat it.

I haven’t worked in application design/dev for 7 years, but when I did it was always unwise to eliminate fairly passive and simple functionality that the user is accustomed to. Especially if it doesn’t create some cause/effect to other functionality. This seems like one of those scenarios.

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Oh, heck. :frowning:

  • 110% agreed!!!

  • Never good to yank a tool without a proper replacement. I get that TR saw PB + AT as that replacement, but unless they chose to eliminate manually added plans (and the greater flexibility they offer / demand) they made a big mistake by removing them from all access. Not good IMO.

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Haha, but now it works if I add the workout manually to a different day or week. Head scratcher.

Screen Shot 2021-11-23 at 9.39.55 AM

+1 for another frustrated user. I’m following traditional base, which plan builder can’t handle!

That push/pull function was so useful! the copy/paste just isn’t quite the same.

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This is sort of tangentially related to this feature being removed - but what is the recommended workflow to change the work:rest week ratio for a plan?

Say I wanted to change a base plan to give me a rest week after 3 weeks instead of 5 - previously I could push and add in an easy week.

Is it better to just not do the prescribed workouts in a given week and then have a strange ‘second’ rest week in the original timeframe? I think this would lead to weeks 1-3, as per AT and plan design, week 4 I do easy workouts, week 5 would then be another ‘normal’ week, but week 6 would stay as an easy week. So this doesn’t seem ideal

Would using annotations end up in the same place?

Neither feels ideal. I guess the idea is you can’t really charge the work:rest ratio with AT because you shouldn’t need to since it is adjusting automatically - but its still something I would like to see covered in future iterations

Using the Time Off Annotation is likely the solution to employ, but it is not perfect in my eyes.

  • If you have a Plan Builder with a set target date, it seemingly just empties the week in question with minimal changes to the following weeks. It is “sticking to the date” and not shifting anything. It may lead to some downgrading of the plan initially, as AT sees you “missing workouts” If you add work back in, it may adjust, but that is all guesswork from me.

  • If you have not end events set, it sounds like PB just pushes the plan out a week, which is more like the old process of Push. I suspect a similar result if you apply Time Off with a manually added plan, but have not tested that either.

Lots of unknowns for me, but someone may have tackled those and have more results to report.

Oof, please bring this back. For me the ability to modify my plans to reflect realities in my scheduling was a far more useful feature than anything I’ve found offered with Adaptive Training so far. I even tried disabling Adaptive Training and still wasn’t able to push or pull weeks.

A common scenario for me is that I realize a recovery week ends up being week or so off from when I end up having vacation scheduled, so I push that week forward to align with the vacation and add in another week of work before. I have a vague recollection of older podcast episodes recommending this approach. Right now it seems like the best way to do this is to move individual workouts around but it’s definitely more cumbersome.

I’m in a similar situation as others where my target event dates are basically just guesses. Because of COVID and the fact that I’ll be in a new city next season, I’ve made my best guesses for events I might be interested in targeting and when they might be happening based on pre-2020 race schedules, but they’re really just guesses at this point. Moving the end date for the plan around a little isn’t going to make or break my ability to target a particular event that isn’t guaranteed to actually happen on the date I put into PB.

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I used annotations earlier. It didnt work easily to get a 2-1 ratio of build/recovery during a build phase. AT still has its default assumptions that it wants more build weeks then I do. Not friendly to those of us who are older and have learned…too much intensity over a longer period isnt a performance increaser.

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Following up about Annotations and push/pull weeks:
We totally acknowledge that ‘Annotations’ aren’t a great user experience based upon the feedback we have received, and we’re adjusting this to be more descriptive of what Annotations actually do, and why to use them.

‘Clear week’ is back! And to achieve push week currently, using Annotations will achieve the same outcome, perhaps better within AT considering the way we’ll adapt workouts if necessary to maintain the proper training progression following days off/irregular training.
However, if you’re on a stock plan with no event date, a current workaround is to manually move everything down a week with the ‘move week’ function.
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We know it isn’t perfect, but the alternative (keeping push week) had more potential for damage within Adaptive Training. Push week would break the plans in a way that led to a really poor experience for the majority of our athletes. :+1:

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