# Expectations of TR and AT **URL:** \ **Category:** TrainerRoad Software\ **Created:** [November 24, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692 "2021-11-24T14:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DustinMoyer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dustinmoyer/32/12893_2.png) [@DustinMoyer](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/DustinMoyer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/1 "2021-11-24T14:49:01Z")
I’m amazed by the expectations that some people on here have of TR and AT. It’s like people think if they could get the perfect plan, then they’d be at 5w/kg. If you’re natural talent is such that you are doing that talent a disservice by not implementing a plan that is absolutely optimal for you, then damn, invest in yourself and hire a full on personal coach (I’m guessing that’s more than $20/mth). All I hear is people letting perfection get in the way of progress. Another rant…all the people that change tons of shit in their plan and complain about the plan. It’s like when my wife says she reads a recipe review online where they sub half the ingredients then rate it a 1 star cause it tasted like ass. Give me a break. I had taken an 18 month TR break as I focused on Crossfit, but I’m back and my mind is blown at what I’m getting for $20/mth. It’s certainly better programming than my talent will be able to take advantage of (I was at 4.4 w/kg at the end of 2019). Felt Cute…might delete later. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/2 "2021-11-24T17:04:01Z")
> [@DustinMoyer](#): > > a recipe review online where they sub half the ingredients then rate it a 1 star cause it tasted like ass. This drives me NUTS ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Russell\_Racing](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jack_russell_racing/32/2201_2.png) [@Jack\_Russell\_Racing](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jack_Russell_Racing)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/3 "2021-11-24T17:10:36Z")
Hold on. Something that tastes like ASS drives you NUTS ? I feel there’s a pun in here somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![TooManyDogs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/toomanydogs/32/98121_2.png) [@TooManyDogs](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/TooManyDogs)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/4 "2021-11-24T17:46:21Z")
Some people expect miracles. Training is hard and making improvements often takes time. Many people are impatient. ---
**Author:** ![ibaldwin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ibaldwin/32/44413_2.png) [@ibaldwin](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ibaldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/5 "2021-11-24T17:51:16Z")
In fairness, if I did what PB spit out for me for base training for an A race in June, I’d hate my bike by February. I’ve said it before, TR is _self coaching software_. For less experienced riders, I could see how blindly following a TR plan, with or without AT as being a potential for issues and therefore criticism on the platform. That said, I’m a big fan and have gotten some friends on the platform, but - it’s not for everyone and if you’re really wanting to optimize your own personal training, yes hire a coach if you can afford it, or better yet dig into the science yourself, make excellent notes and figure out what works for you as an individual. ---
**Author:** ![WindWarrior](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/windwarrior/32/84679_2.png) [@WindWarrior](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WindWarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/6 "2021-11-24T18:26:59Z")
> [@DustinMoyer](#): > > I’m amazed by the expectations that some people on here have of TR and AT. Well TR asserted this: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/b/c/bc582729bff900a75d680956a04347a6350190b4.png) and scrolling down we have these assertions: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/6/b/6b5e29a13913b180dcd5f58568d5a9f2972d879c.png) Do you think that has anything to do with high expectations? ---
**Author:** ![DustinMoyer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dustinmoyer/32/12893_2.png) [@DustinMoyer](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/DustinMoyer)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:24pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/7 "2021-11-24T19:24:36Z")
It actively responds to my unique strengths, weaknesses, and scheduling needs like nothing else out there short of a good coach. It updates my plan after each ride in response to my performance and schedule changes. And the right workout every time? Well, grand scheme, there is no “right workout”, don’t let perfection get in the way of progress. Personally, I have a disproportionate contribution from my aerobic system when doing ftp tests, from Ramp tests, up to 20 minute tests, so no matter the training program before, i’ve always had to do a ton of self adjusting to anything over threshold, and my endurance workouts have always been too easy for me. Not anymore! This stuff is awesome ($20). ---
**Author:** ![brenth](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/brenth/32/12893_2.png) [@brenth](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/brenth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:30pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/8 "2021-11-24T19:30:29Z")
Maybe just a bit…lol ---
**Author:** ![WindWarrior](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/windwarrior/32/84679_2.png) [@WindWarrior](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WindWarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/9 "2021-11-24T19:31:21Z")
Glad its working for you! (I have a different opinion) ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/10 "2021-11-24T20:07:45Z")
I just realized you’re not @bbarrera with a different name. I guess it’s not a rule, but you might want to change your avatar. He’s been an active member here for a long time and uses the same picture. ---
**Author:** ![d\_diston](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/d_diston/32/10140_2.png) [@d\_diston](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/d_diston)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/11 "2021-11-24T20:11:01Z")
> [@WindWarrior](#): > > Glad its working for you! (I have a different opinion) I’d love to see an analysis of training age and success with/opinion of AT. My hunch is as experience goes up, faith in AT decreases. ---
**Author:** ![WindWarrior](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/windwarrior/32/84679_2.png) [@WindWarrior](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WindWarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/12 "2021-11-24T20:22:25Z")
@Pbase thanks and sorry for the confusion, I am in fact one and the same. TR support confirmed I needed to create a new account after cancelling my subscription ten days ago, an unintentional consequence due to having created my forum account using TR login. > [@d\_diston](#): > > I’d love to see an analysis of training age and success with/opinion of AT. My hunch is as experience goes up, faith in AT decreases. AT certainly helps solve the problem of onboarding new or returning users, and after a convergence period each user should end up with a plan with appropriate workouts. ---
**Author:** ![Rob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Rob](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Rob)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/13 "2021-11-24T21:16:01Z")
I thought this the other day but just figured he had changed his username. Pretty confusing to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![bobmcstuff](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bobmcstuff/32/12893_2.png) [@bobmcstuff](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/bobmcstuff)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/14 "2021-11-24T21:21:53Z")
It’s a sales pitch dude, what do you expect. ---
**Author:** ![Pbase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pbase/32/969_2.png) [@Pbase](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pbase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/15 "2021-11-24T21:42:11Z")
I did too, but then I saw some old posts with his old name. Him having to have two accounts explains it though. ---
**Author:** ![rocourteau](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/rocourteau/32/7746_2.png) [@rocourteau](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/rocourteau)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/16 "2021-11-24T21:56:07Z")
> [@d\_diston](#): > > My hunch is as experience goes up, faith in AT decreases. Quite possible. But as experience goes up, one’s ability to decide if a coach, another self-coached approach or whatever other option there may be increases. So one’s need for AT may decrease as well as the faith. Case in point: compared to most people who post here, I’m not that much of a cyclist. Train 3 times per week in the off season, ride a couple times a week in summer. AT is fine for me, it keeps me challenged without going over the top. But I also run (spring to fall). 4-5 times a week. I know how to build my own plans, how to adapt them as I go, etc. I wouldn’t need a TR equivalent nor an AT equivalent for running. No use for it. ---
**Author:** ![WindWarrior](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/windwarrior/32/84679_2.png) [@WindWarrior](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WindWarrior)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/17 "2021-11-24T22:21:44Z")
> [@Rob](#): > > I thought this the other day but just figured he had changed his username. Pretty confusing to say the least. to be honest at times it confuses me too (completely serious). Given I had to create a new account, decided to clean slate the name. > [@bobmcstuff](#): > > It’s a sales pitch dude, what do you expect. Radical candor? Under sell and over deliver? 5 years ago Coach Chad was reported to be [working on a masters plan](https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/base-training-for-aging-athletes/), and in that article it states the third intensity day in a week is ‘icing on the cake’ - so why do some plans have 4 intensity sessions/week? ---
**Author:** ![PusherMan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pusherman/32/4266_2.png) [@PusherMan](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/PusherMan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/18 "2021-11-25T06:17:58Z")
I’m a big fan of TR and what the platform has done for me, in terms of fitness. If I’m totally honest, right now, I’m pretty confused by the Plan(s) Adaptive Training has produced for me. Previously I would have said that I 100% fit the TR target audience. Short on time but able to train regularly and with consistency. I like knocking out intervals during the week and essentially chilling during longer endurance rides over the weekend. My current Base Phase had me staring down the barrel of two threshold workouts, one VO2, one Sweet Spot and one Endurance session. If I’d tried to complete that lot for four weeks _whilst_ getting in one long Endurance ride outdoors, I’d have been toast. Based on my own experience, I’ve stripped out one of the Threshold workouts and replaced it with another outdoor Endurance ride. My first targeted event isn’t until February. As much as I ‘seem’ to have historically responded well to intensity, I really don’t think I’d have made it that far if I’d followed the Plan as it was laid out. Yes, I’ve seen adaptations and I dare say I’d have seen more when I started failing those second Threshold workouts. I simply didn’t see the point in exposing my body, or mind, to that level of effort at this point in my season. ---
**Author:** ![Jason\_Kennedy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jason_kennedy/32/26514_2.png) [@Jason\_Kennedy](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jason_Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 6:51am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/19 "2021-11-25T06:51:38Z")
I am also a fan of TR but AT isn’t worth anything if it doesn’t incluid ALL outside rides and maybe HR changes to monitor fatigue. We are cyclists and most people like to ride outside more than inside, especially in the summer. ---
**Author:** ![bobw](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bobw/32/24759_2.png) [@bobw](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/bobw)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692/20 "2021-11-25T07:11:06Z")
I did all of my riding outdoors from the end of April until almost the end of October. Some rides were with a power meter, some (MTB) weren’t. Those with a power meter were usually associated with a workout, the exceptions would be long weekend rides. I joined the AT beta about June when I was actually doing the Polarised Plans so didn’t enable it until I’d finished those. I did see adaptations, but in honesty can’t remember if there were any after a HR only MTB ride. Those rides _could_ have contributed to other suggested adaptations, I don’t know. Free rides are a problem - from AT’s point of view there’s no intended result to compare the ride to: with a workout, indoor or outdoor, the resulting activity can be compared to what was being asked of the rider and assessed accordingly. How do you know if the answer is right if you don’t know what the original question was? Accounting for HR changes is much harder than monitoring power as it’s not a physiological input but a response to a variety of factors including effort, temperature, humidity, general well being. I can see why TR have left it off the table for now. [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/expectations-of-tr-and-at/65692.md?page=2)