# Dylan Johnson's "The Problem with TrainerRoad Training Plans": it's gonna be a busy day around here **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [February 14, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136 "2021-02-14T13:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2632 "2021-03-11T21:44:24Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > You brought up studies by the same scientists on the same matter from the same chair in the same timeframe which overlap by 60-70%. They are different studies and that is what is asked for. Are you going to argue over what the definition of a separate study is now? ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2633 "2021-03-11T21:44:45Z")
Read both studies and report back. 😉 Actually, please don’t bother. Not much to get out of this. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2634 "2021-03-11T21:50:38Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > Actually, please don’t bother. Not much to get out of this. No I think I will, because with every response you change your goalposts. The 2014 study is a 9 week trial of 18 athletes. The 2015 study is a meta-analysis of the wider topic. The authors are the same but it is a different study. As an analogy, Oliver Twist and a Tale of Two Cities are not the same story because they were both written by Charles Dickens. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2635 "2021-03-11T21:51:55Z")
Like I said, read the studies: Since nearly all studies dealing with TID were based on retrospective analysis, we recently employed a randomized controlled design to investigate which TID (HVLIT vs. THR vs. HIT vs. polarized) provided the greatest response on [key components of endurance performance](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2015.00295/full#KC7) among well-trained athletes ([Stöggl and Sperlich, 2014](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2015.00295/full#B67)). **We concluded that the polarized TID resulted in the greatest improvements in the majority of key endurance performance variables assessed, and THR or HVLIT did not lead to further improvements in performance. However, as numerous retrospective reports have shown conflicting results, the question regarding which TID represents the “best-practice” model for inducing performance gains—while avoiding overtraining—remains open to debate**. Therefore, the aims of the present review were to: (1) summarize the main responses of different retrospective and prospective studies exploring TID; (2) provide a systematic overview of TIDs during preparation, pre-competition, and competition phases in different endurance disciplines and performance levels; (3) address whether one TID has demonstrated enhanced efficacy over another; and (4) highlight research gaps in an effort to direct future scientific studies. No goalposts were changed and your analogy doesn’t check out. The LOTR trilogy would be a better fit. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2636 "2021-03-11T21:56:56Z")
So the fact they commented on a previous study they had undertaken in a meta-analysis of the wider topic makes this the same study? 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2637 "2021-03-11T21:57:47Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > The LOTR trilogy would be a better fit. Right. Is Return of the King the same story as the Fellowship of the Ring? ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2638 "2021-03-11T21:58:57Z")
They follow their own study up because their results were not without doubt. In simpler words, they didn’t finish the job in the first run and hence went back. > [@anon13702412](#): > > However, as numerous retrospective reports have shown conflicting results, the question regarding which TID represents the “best-practice” model for inducing performance gains—while avoiding overtraining—remains open to debate LOTR is a better analogy because it’s a series of movies that tells one story from beginning to end. Just like the two studies do. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2639 "2021-03-11T22:03:08Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > In simpler words, they didn’t finish the job in the first run and hence went back. No, that’s not it. They ran a trial in the 2014 study then conducted a meta-analysis in the 2015 study. Two different things. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2640 "2021-03-11T22:05:36Z")
Why don’t you simply read their explanation? They specifically describe why they followed the 2014 study up in 2015. Literally in the next sentence they explain what they did. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2641 "2021-03-11T22:07:11Z")
Yeah you’re correct actually. It’s actually exactly the same study. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2642 "2021-03-11T22:08:12Z")
Oh boy, I am out. In case you find actual new research on POL let us know. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2643 "2021-03-11T22:19:10Z")
ok. Evertsen, F., Medbo, J. I., Jebens, E., and Nicolaysen, K. (1997). Hard training for 5 mo increases Na(+)-K+ pump concentration in skeletal muscle of cross-country skiers. _Am. J. Physiol._ 272, R1417–R1424. Evertsen, F., Medbo, J. I., Jebens, E., and Gjovaag, T. F. (1999). Effect of training on the activity of five muscle enzymes studied on elite cross-country skiers. _Acta Physiol. Scand._ 167, 247–257. doi: 10.1046/j.1365-201x.1999.00607.x Evertsen, F., Medbo, J. I., and Bonen, A. (2001). Effect of training intensity on muscle lactate transporters and lactate threshold of cross-country skiers. _Acta Physiol. Scand._ 173, 195–205. doi: 10.1046/j.1365-201X.2001.00871.x Billat, V. L., Flechet, B., Petit, B., Muriaux, G., and Koralsztein, J. P. (1999). Interval training at VO2max: effects on aerobic performance and overtraining markers. _Med. Sci. Sports Exerc._ 31, 156–163. doi: 10.1097/00005768-199901000-00024 Ingham, S. A., Fudge, B. W., and Pringle, J. S. (2012). Training distribution, physiological profile, and performance for a male international 1500-m runner. _Int. J. Sports Physiol. Perform._ 7, 193–195. Ingham, S. A., Carter, H., Whyte, G. P., and Doust, J. H. (2008). Physiological and performance effects of low- versus mixed-intensity rowing training. _Med. Sci. Sports Exerc._ 40, 579–584. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0b013e31815ecc6a Yu, H., Chen, X., Zhu, W., and Cao, C. (2012). A quasi-experimental study of Chinese top-level speed skaters. training load: threshold versus polarized model. _Int. J. Sports Physiol. Perform._ 7, 103–112. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2644 "2021-03-11T22:21:34Z")
All but one are not on POL itself. That one I haven’t read yet. Though I suggest you read them. Picked the first for you: To study how training affects the Na(+)-K+ pump concentration, 11 male and 9 female elite junior cross-country skiers trained 12-15 h/wk at 60-70% (moderate-intensity group) or 80-90% (high-intensity group) of their maximal O2 uptake for 5 mo. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2645 "2021-03-11T22:25:46Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > Though I suggest you read them. No need to change the goalposts again. You asked for new research and I have given it you. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2646 "2021-03-11T22:26:26Z")
The research you have posted is not pol related. Again no goalpost moved. Read up, it won’t harm! Here is what the first study you brought up was about: To study how training affects the Na(+)-K+ pump concentration, 11 male and 9 female elite junior cross-country skiers trained 12-15 h/wk at 60-70% (moderate-intensity group) or 80-90% (high-intensity group) of their maximal O2 uptake for 5 mo. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2647 "2021-03-11T22:26:57Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > The research you have posted is not pol related. Again no goalpost moved. Read up, it won’t harm! Really? So this study is not POL related: Yu, H., Chen, X., Zhu, W., and Cao, C. (2012). A quasi-experimental study of Chinese top-level speed skaters. training load: threshold versus polarized model. _Int. J. Sports Physiol. Perform._ 7, 103–112. Curious. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2648 "2021-03-11T22:27:34Z")
> [@chris1234](#): > > Curious. Read what I wrote „all but one“ and „that one I haven’t read yet“. Your behavior gets rather obnoxious. I will ignore you from now on. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2652 "2021-03-11T22:39:57Z")
Let’s not get personal. Chris, I think you’ve said what you’ve wanted to say and I think Keoni has made his point too. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2653 "2021-03-11T22:42:10Z")
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged) ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2655 "2021-03-11T22:51:11Z")
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