# Dylan Johnson's "The Problem with TrainerRoad Training Plans": it's gonna be a busy day around here **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [February 14, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136 "2021-02-14T13:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Pasque](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pasque/32/47338_2.png) [@Pasque](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pasque)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2612 "2021-03-11T20:35:13Z")
Yah that’s exactly what I don’t really get about this “debate”. It’s unlikely to be really big difference in either direction, so just do whatever suits your lifestyle at any given point in time 🤷🏻‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2613 "2021-03-11T20:35:50Z")
For those that missed it elsewhere: > [@Polarized Training Deep Dive and TrainerRoad’s Training Plans – Ask a Cycling Coach 299](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/polarized-training-deep-dive-and-trainerroad-s-training-plans-ask-a-cycling-coach-299/55252): > > Polarized Training is a hot topic of conversation and has been a central part of recent criticism toward TrainerRoad’s training plans. In this episode, we cover the basics of endurance training, go in-depth into the ten studies that have been used to criticize TrainerRoad, comprehensively review the current Polarized Training research, and take a deeper look at how TrainerRoad’s training plans are structured, then address the most common questions about them. Tune in live on YouTube, today at 1… ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 8:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2614 "2021-03-11T20:47:41Z")
TrainerRoad have addressed this topic exactly as I hoped. Earlier in the thread I said they should either address the science _or_ provide a polarized plan. In fact, they have done (or are doing) both. What’s more bizarre is the number of people on this thread who were arguing: - there was no need for anymore plans - there was no need to address the topic at all Hopefully these same people now realise that some constructive criticism (to a receptive organisation) is useful, not an attack on your sacred cows. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2615 "2021-03-11T20:51:23Z")
As per POL, PYR of THR there was already a 1800+ post on this forum on the matter. Quite constructive discussions there. Though here a fair share of people took offense on how DJ had put together the video and also what his motives were for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Cleanneon98](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/cleanneon98/32/80252_2.png) [@Cleanneon98](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Cleanneon98)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2616 "2021-03-11T20:59:42Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > Though here a fair share of people took offense on how DJ had put together the video and also what his motives were for doing so. I bet the reaction would be different for this video which IMO was WAY more critical: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/6/2/62e05030f6ea12f36422cecba322ab7984b98d59.jpeg "The Problem with Zwift Workouts and Training Plans") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmVZshpLaqs) Probably more along the lines of “yea zwift plans suck” and “who needs a stupid virtual world anyway” but when someone criticizes our product everyone blindly loses their minds, even though he was advocating for a plan that people here have asked for, for years ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2617 "2021-03-11T21:03:06Z")
My reaction wouldn’t be any different. I think it’s poor taste to talk down on your competitors. Especially when you fail to communicate your conflicting interests. I for my part don’t want to engage with such a person. Nor do I accept such behavior from my employees. ---
**Author:** ![Cleanneon98](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/cleanneon98/32/80252_2.png) [@Cleanneon98](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Cleanneon98)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2618 "2021-03-11T21:11:37Z")
I don’t really see how TR and Zwift are his competitors, they are in totally different leagues when it comes to scale. That’s like if I started welding together 10 bike frames a year in my basement to “steal business” from TREK. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2619 "2021-03-11T21:16:59Z")
> [@anon13702412](#): > > I for my part don’t want to engage with such a person. Nor do I accept such behavior from my employees. It’s a good job TrainerRoad didn’t take such a regressive attitude - now we have a podcast on the science and a new plan coming. Win-win for the customers. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2620 "2021-03-11T21:18:46Z")
DJ is selling his cookie-cutter plans off TrainingPeaks. He offers his training services via his homepage. Plus he advertises his affiliate services on his YouTube channel. So yes, I think there is a large overlap in his customer base with Zwift, Sufferfest, or TrainerRoad. With his videos he is addressing them. (Or why else would somebody watch a video on Zwift or TR training otherwise.) The style of his videos is certainly tailored to attract people. I mean just look at the thumbnail. Anyway, let’s not repeat ourselves. We have had this conversation a coupledom times by now. Happy to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2621 "2021-03-11T21:20:34Z")
> [@chris1234](#): > > It’s a good job TrainerRoad didn’t take such a regressive attitude - now we have a podcast on the science and a new plan coming. Win-win for the customers. Sure, it’s been the video and not the 3-4 years of discussion on the forum that have made them do that. Also the countless questions via the podcast had nothing to do with it. Ditto for the study on pol they have supported last year. All credit to DJ. 🤦🏻 Might want to check out the video of Alex from fastcycling and his critics of TR. Same same but different… ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2622 "2021-03-11T21:25:47Z")
You are probably right. Despite the fact that the CEO is on this thread saying they will respond, that the podcast episode references both POL _and_ also the issue of too much intensity, and the fact that the podcast was released two weeks after, I am sure the DJ video had absolutely NOTHING to do with it 😆 ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2623 "2021-03-11T21:29:33Z")
> [@chris1234](#): > > Despite the fact that the CEO is on this thread saying they will respond, that the podcast episode references both POL _and_ also the issue of too much intensity, and the fact that the podcast was released two weeks after, I am sure the DJ video had absolutely NOTHING to do with it Meh, you wouldn’t know as you seem to have registered for this thread. Though perhaps you want to use the search function and type in polarized. It’s big since years. Perhaps you can even participate in the study on POL TR was supporting at the end of last year/beginning of this year. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2624 "2021-03-11T21:29:52Z")
And let’s not forget that the DJ video and the TrainerRoad podcast (uploaded today) reference 8 of the same studies. But yeah, the DJ video had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2625 "2021-03-11T21:30:41Z")
Try finding more studies on the matter. 🤦🏻 Another fun fact, TR even had recorded a podcast with 80/20 Matt Fitzgerald in 2017(!). 💁🏻‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2626 "2021-03-11T21:32:25Z")
ok. > **[Polarized training has greater impact on key endurance variables than...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912323/)** > > Endurance athletes integrate four conditioning concepts in their training programs: high-volume training (HVT), “threshold-training” (THR), high-intensity interval training (HIIT) and a combination of these aforementioned concepts known ... ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2627 "2021-03-11T21:35:42Z")
Both Stöggl and Sperrlich are referenced on the podcast. 🤦🏻 ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2628 "2021-03-11T21:36:02Z")
When? ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2629 "2021-03-11T21:36:29Z")
Might as well bother reading the sources. Hint, 11. ---
**Author:** ![chris1234](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chris1234/32/7746_2.png) [@chris1234](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chris1234)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2630 "2021-03-11T21:37:32Z")
So changing the goalposts then? Hint: you wrote “try finding more studies on the matter”, not “try finding more authors on the matter”. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2631 "2021-03-11T21:38:40Z")
You brought up studies by the same scientists on the same matter from the same chair in the same timeframe which overlap by 60-70%. Also, the study you referenced list 5(?) of the studies and researchers TR has referenced. Superb! [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136.md?page=121) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136.md?page=123)