# Dylan Johnson's "The Problem with TrainerRoad Training Plans": it's gonna be a busy day around here **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [February 14, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136 "2021-02-14T13:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![ChefAcB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chefacb/32/144835_2.png) [@ChefAcB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChefAcB)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2567 "2021-03-06T21:28:52Z")
That’s after the McRib training plan 😂 ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2568 "2021-03-06T21:30:35Z")
During recovery week you’re on McFlurry workouts… ---
**Author:** ![guyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/838e76/32.png) [@guyc](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/guyc)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2569 "2021-03-07T01:25:50Z")
Agree - it’s like that classic business trick of presenting pricing options knowing that most people will naturally choose the middle option. People probably do the same with training plans. ---
**Author:** ![robertbb](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/robertbb/32/1707_2.png) [@robertbb](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/robertbb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2570 "2021-03-07T06:01:34Z")
It’s funny that people are still banging on about volume and intensity (zone breakdown) in these plans and pay zero attention to the anchor point around which the zones are set. Namely: “FTP” Plan design is only half the problem here… proper zone identification is probably a bigger issue that remains totally ignored. ---
**Author:** ![anon13702412](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@anon13702412](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/anon13702412)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 6:05am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2571 "2021-03-07T06:05:07Z")
> [@robertbb](#): > > Plan design is only half the problem here… proper zone identification is probably a bigger issue that remains totally ignored. I guess you have missed it but people have addressed that point as much as the plans. 😅😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shrike](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/shrike/32/17010_2.png) [@Shrike](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Shrike)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 7:24am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2572 "2021-03-07T07:24:37Z")
I thought they announced a new way to detect FTP without testing. Wonder how the beta guys are finding it. What about Sufferfests 4DP thing, think TR will have a go at identifying various zones or just stick to working it all off FTP? ---
**Author:** ![Pasque](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/pasque/32/47338_2.png) [@Pasque](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pasque)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2573 "2021-03-07T07:34:54Z")
As far as I understood it, the AT constantly looks how you perform at each powerlevel and adjusts accordingly. Kinda like 4DP, but with 7 zones, but more connected and no 4DP test. So ultimately there won’t be any more tests needed. But for the time being, it still requires (_insert your prefered ftp test_), sort of as a starting point. ---
**Author:** ![Shrike](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/shrike/32/17010_2.png) [@Shrike](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Shrike)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2574 "2021-03-07T07:46:52Z")
Very cool, not missing any tricks then! ---
**Author:** ![enki42](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/enki42/32/68042_2.png) [@enki42](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/enki42)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 7:51am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2575 "2021-03-07T07:51:31Z")
Nate commented on some of that here [Zone 2 in adaptive training - #32 by enki42](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/zone-2-in-adaptive-training/54512/32) ---
**Author:** ![JJon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9f8e36/32.png) [@JJon](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JJon)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 11:27am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2576 "2021-03-07T11:27:06Z")
Why this topic has 2,5k comments? ---
**Author:** ![markbrouns](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/markbrouns/32/7757_2.png) [@markbrouns](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/markbrouns)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 11:28am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2577 "2021-03-07T11:28:36Z")
2540 now 😄 ---
**Author:** ![chidlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cab0a1/32.png) [@chidlow](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/chidlow)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2578 "2021-03-07T11:55:26Z")
It’d only be 1,900 if you take out all the “how is this thread still going?”, “why are people still talking, how dare they talk about things that don’t interest me on a free forum”, etc, etc… ---
**Author:** ![robertbb](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/robertbb/32/1707_2.png) [@robertbb](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/robertbb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2579 "2021-03-07T21:59:50Z")
Have they? I’m ashamed to admit, I haven’t read all 2541 posts… 😉 What’s the thinking there? How does TR plan to address properly identifying suprathreshold zones? ---
**Author:** ![RKCyclist](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/rkcyclist/32/7746_2.png) [@RKCyclist](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/RKCyclist)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2580 "2021-03-07T22:10:42Z")
Using adaptive training… Try reading the thread ---
**Author:** ![robertbb](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/robertbb/32/1707_2.png) [@robertbb](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/robertbb)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2581 "2021-03-07T22:47:16Z")
I’m glad you have the time to read 2.5k posts on the topic, I don’t however. Thanks for your help. ---
**Author:** ![JulianM](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/julianm/32/2112_2.png) [@JulianM](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/JulianM)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2582 "2021-03-07T23:09:54Z")
While your FTP won’t change between tests where you are in the progression system will decide the level of difficulty of workouts within that zone. For example if you have done plenty of tempo/sweetspot work and have a high 8/9/10 progression level you will be offered advanced workouts of that type. At the same time if you are less advanced currently at over threshold work you will be offered less advanced workouts within the scope of the VO2 workouts offered. While your FTP doesn’t change, the difficulty of workouts within each zone can vary considerably depending on your current relative abilities and doesn’t have the same inflexible relationship that anchoring particular workouts and plans to FTP often has. ---
**Author:** ![OreoCookie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/oreocookie/32/8298_2.png) [@OreoCookie](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/OreoCookie)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2584 "2021-03-08T00:20:36Z")
This was one of the points they started out with and explained explicitly that this was a problem, but one they couldn’t solve automatically before AT. They have said explicitly that if you wanted to, you’d never have to take another FTP test again. AT will adjust your training levels automatically. They have also addressed specifically the problem that a rider’s FTP isn’t 75 % of their MAP, but a range. E. g. AT will tweak the levels in VO2max workouts. For example, if your FTP is 77 % of MAP, i. e. your VO2max power is a lower percentage of your FTP, then AT will drop the power level of your VO2max intervals from, say, 120 % to 118 %. So I am not sure why you claim they have ignored this. 🤷‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_Pearson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/nate_pearson/32/117463_2.png) [@Nate\_Pearson](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Nate_Pearson)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2585 "2021-03-08T04:18:37Z")
> [@redlude97](#): > > Not even a joke, I think this plan would be pretty popular. Lots of people don’t want to spend more than 1-2 days inside on the trainer. Call it low volume or indoor/outdoor but if it can incorporate progression and periodization with the suggestion of filling in with outdoor rides. Then when the ML adapts to the combined TSS then people will really be guided well for mixed training. That’s what Train Now is for. There’s a large portion of TR athletes who don’t even want to be on a plan. They just want to train when they have time and pick something that looks “good” to them. They don’t have target events and just ride to be faster outside. ---
**Author:** ![enki42](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/enki42/32/68042_2.png) [@enki42](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/enki42)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 5:03am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2586 "2021-03-08T05:03:44Z")
> [@Nate\_Pearson](#): > > They don’t have target events and just ride to be faster outside. I wonder if this will be possible when you are able to classify outdoor rides. Have some form of low volume weekend warrior plan for those who do group rides in weekends. Instead of plan builder being told what type of riding you want to train for skynet could see based on your previous weekend ride what to aim you at ---
**Author:** ![WombatJones](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/wombatjones/32/20824_2.png) [@WombatJones](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WombatJones)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136/2587 "2021-03-08T05:36:24Z")
I feel inclined to add my N+1 since I have had a “pro level” coach for many years, and the last two on TR. My coach (yes, coaches world tour pro’s) NEVER had me ride with no intervals except in the off season. Every day had intensity and I thrived. Here is the key though; Most, if not all midweek rides were 60min. Hard trainer intervals were 45min. I was doing 8-10hrs a week. Even 2hrs on the weekend, was mostly z2 but had a few short intervals scattered in there. How does this compare to TR? Well, TR is very close but the weekly increase is too much. 6x2min @120% one week, then 3min the next is too high a step and this is where I fail, not due to the amount of intensity. [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136.md?page=119) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dylan-johnsons-the-problem-with-trainerroad-training-plans-its-gonna-be-a-busy-day-around-here/53136.md?page=121)