# Dumb question about 80/20 polarized training **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [July 8, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174 "2023-07-08T22:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pica64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pica64](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pica64)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/1 "2023-07-08T22:50:33Z")
Hi everybody, Question : When you do a 80/20 polarized training, does it mean that 80% of your time is done at Z2 and the remainder at Z4/Z5 ? Or does it mean that on 5 workouts, you will do 4 of them à Z2 and the last one will be a HIT workouts where you will do some Z4/Z5 works ? So at the end you will do like 90% of your weekly volume at Z2 and maybe 10% at actually Z4/Z5. Thanks for your help, ---
**Author:** ![WindWarrior](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/windwarrior/32/84679_2.png) [@WindWarrior](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/WindWarrior)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/2 "2023-07-08T23:00:32Z")
I ride “a lot” which for me is 6-12 hours per week and it ends up being 70-80% zone 1&2. Just go with it and see where you end up. ---
**Author:** ![tribuddha](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/tribuddha/32/263_2.png) [@tribuddha](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/tribuddha)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/3 "2023-07-08T23:07:16Z")
I believe Dr. Seiler’s work originally used the number of workouts for the 80/20 concept and the total time would vary depending on the year but would hover between 80-90% for z2. ---
**Author:** ![RecoveryRide](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/recoveryride/32/53516_2.png) [@RecoveryRide](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/RecoveryRide)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/5 "2023-07-09T10:54:35Z")
I think (without reading huge amounts of the literature) it’s best seen as a concept rather than a hard and fast, numerical prescription; i.e. the substantial majority (~80%) of your rides should be easy, with the rest being pretty damn hard. If some/one of your longer rides is easier, this will tend to correspond to ~90/10 in terms of time. FWIW, intervals.icu almost invariably classes my training as pyramidal when I try and do this, but I suspect that’s because my longer rides are often through hilly terrain (just a feature of the local geography) and hence have a bit more time at tempo/z3 than the ‘classic’ polarized model. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisDe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@ChrisDe](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChrisDe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/6 "2023-07-09T21:38:05Z")
> [@Pica64](#): > > on 5 workouts, you will do 4 of them à Z2 and the last one will be a HIT workout That’s my understanding ---
**Author:** ![Jolyzara](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jolyzara/32/97333_2.png) [@Jolyzara](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jolyzara)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/7 "2023-07-10T06:14:03Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/6/a/6a234207ce2560a88a2fc9629b41f0ae65cfeb4d.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Pica64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pica64](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Pica64)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/8 "2023-07-12T16:40:32Z")
Thank you for your answers, I’ll stick to a workout approach rather than an hourly volume approach in the strict sense! I wish you all new PRs ! ---
**Author:** ![kurt.braeckel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/kurt.braeckel/32/116719_2.png) [@kurt.braeckel](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/kurt.braeckel)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/9 "2023-07-12T16:42:33Z")
FWIW the study was also based on nordic skiing and Seiler himself now says it’s obvious that cyclists need to spend time in the “gray zone” (tempo/SST) because it’s relevant to most of our events. ---
**Author:** ![buzzcock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@buzzcock](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/buzzcock)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 7:29am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/10 "2023-07-13T07:29:05Z")
I’d say do not get too hung up on abstract intensity distribution ratios. Most riding suspiciously easy, (rpe \< 4/10), then focus on giving it either extensive (TTE training) or intensive (vo2max) beans a couple times a week. ---
**Author:** ![Dannyjhopkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dannyjhopkin/32/77921_2.png) [@Dannyjhopkin](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Dannyjhopkin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/11 "2023-07-15T22:06:51Z")
I like the San Millan way of thinking about it, i.e., what metabolic process do I want to stimulate today? Given that, the polarisation is by workout split, not time in zone. If a workout pushes your blood lactate very high, it takes a long time to transition back to metabolising lots of fat. So you may spend time in, say, zone 2, but the fuel substrate is not the one intended. ---
**Author:** ![millermedeiros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/millermedeiros/32/51156_2.png) [@millermedeiros](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/millermedeiros)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/12 "2023-07-17T02:47:54Z")
On this [interview with Iñigo San-Millán](https://youtu.be/xuqURs4auc8?t=4m00s) he mentions that since he’s time restricted, he rides for 1h30, 3-5 days per week, and basically keeps a consistent “Zone 2” for the first hour, and do a really strong 4-5min interval near the end… — The order affects the results, since it takes a while for lactate to clear up… ---
**Author:** ![Dannyjhopkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/dannyjhopkin/32/77921_2.png) [@Dannyjhopkin](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Dannyjhopkin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/13 "2023-07-17T19:00:03Z")
Indeed, I even started doing this with my TR workouts. I would find a workout alternative for VO2 or anaerobic that was 30 min, then extend the warm-up to ride at a lower intensity for the first 45-60 min, followed by a hard punch at the end. ---
**Author:** ![kurt.braeckel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/kurt.braeckel/32/116719_2.png) [@kurt.braeckel](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/kurt.braeckel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/15 "2023-07-17T19:51:59Z")
ISM seems to believe it, even though plenty of other prominent physiologists (notably Seiler and Coggan) disagree and as you said there is evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![amac4108](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/amac4108/32/165184_2.png) [@amac4108](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/amac4108)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/16 "2023-07-18T02:30:56Z")
Do you have a link to an article or podcast where he discusses this? I would love to read that. TIA ---
**Author:** ![kurt.braeckel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/kurt.braeckel/32/116719_2.png) [@kurt.braeckel](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/kurt.braeckel)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/17 "2023-07-18T04:18:06Z")
[Fight fight fight!](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/inigo-san-millan-training-model/43552/1321) ---
**Author:** ![vt321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/aeb1de/32.png) [@vt321](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/vt321)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 6:58am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/19 "2023-07-18T06:58:12Z")
Tons of them - just Google “Dr. Stephen Seiler” ---
**Author:** ![vt321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/aeb1de/32.png) [@vt321](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/vt321)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 7:07am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/dumb-question-about-80-20-polarized-training/85174/21 "2023-07-18T07:07:25Z")
I’m a big fan of Dr. Stephen Seiler. He explains things so well, using analogies and such. To answer the OP’s question, per Seiler, based on his observation of elite athletes, 80/20 would be 80% of the workout **sessions** are lower intensity, 20% are high intensity. Again, this was a summary of how high level aerobic athletes train - athletes that had a high volume (training time) and high frequency of workouts (number of workouts).