The shortcoming as it currently sits, is that “fatigue” is going to point AT/ML to my previous structured ride, though, right? If I choose “fatigue” does the system actually actually take into things like weekly total TSS or preceding three/four days’ of TSS, or does it just skip to the rides that it recognizes as workouts?
Until its can at least use my unstructured outdoor rides to some extent, I still think its not terribly useful for a guy who does half his rides outside without a specific power target.
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After a quick look at my SSB2LV I see some logic there. Happy to see Leconte gone! I’m encouraged so far!
In the past years on Century plan I’ve done, very successfully, workouts like Galena (SS 7.8). In the updated Century plan the highest rated Sweetspot workout I see is a 4.7. If I know I’m already able to comfortably complete level 7 SS workouts should I substitute?
I think we’ll see some evidence of how the new plans are working soon enough. I switched to the new plan half way through Sustained Build LV (I tend to do an hour on non scheduled days of Z2 if I have time). Ramp test last night saw a bump from 289 to 296 FTP on the old plan (so close to the magic 300! although at 95kg I’m not breaking any w/kg records :D). So curious to see whether the second half continues the upwards trajectory. I’m not training for any specific event so for the sake of 4 weeks, I may as well give it a go.
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I don’t think it matters. It’s not connecting the dots to your previous rides so much as marking that current workout as a struggle due to fatigue, and using it for pattern analysis. Since your rides are commutes, they’re essentially a regular pattern of stress, making them more akin to a constant variable. At that point fatigue is likely more related to the workouts than your commute rides. Not to mention the granularity you’re talking about is just not how AT currently operates from what I can tell. We humans get caught up in that, but in many ways those elements aren’t as important as you think in the grand scheme of things.
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What’s the point of using predictive/interpretive algorithms that don’t use 40-60% of available data points?
My commutes and other outdoor rides actually aren’t a regular pattern of stress (not a constant, or a given), they vary in intensity, length and intent. Commutes are part of the pattern, but depending on the route, wind and how much free time I have before kids PM activities they can really vary. Same goes for Sunday rides, sometimes a pub crawl, sometimes sunny ride with the 9 year-old, and sometimes an out and back tempo ride. So analyzing just the workouts isn’t a benefit to me.
The algorithm complexity and reliability will probably continue to be tweaked, and I’m not saying that I won’t use it until the outdoor rides are perfectly weighted in AT algorithms, but giving them no weight whatsoever means they’re being ignored for current AT purposes. The granularity/in depth analysis is the real potential benefit of large data-set analysis over basic plan/coach/self awareness/bro science.
I’ll just bump my Tuesday VO2 down -1 (or one level in the new rating scale, or cut from 90/75 minutes to 75/60 minute version) after a long hard Sunday ride for now, and if I don’t commute on Wednesday or Thursday I’ll look for the +2 version or tack on 20-30 minutes of Z2 at the end of my Thursday ride. (My self-awareness/bro-science here applied to the “built plan”).
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Accounting for unstructured outside rides imported from Garmin/Wahoo is an extremely high priority for our developers currently. Thanks for your patience!
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That’s good to hear as it’s a massive gap at the minute.
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@wstinger, I’ve been debating this myself and I would substitute the sweet spot workouts if you know you can do level 7. There’s a whole thread dedicated to sweet spot progression and a bunch of good ones in the More Sweet Spot team.
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So I hit Yes when the “Do you want to update your plans” dialog box came up in TR, but I didn’t read the message fully. I think it said something about plans changing but this not yet being the full blown Adaptive Training.
Questions:
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I assume since AT is not yet functional on my profile then the plans won’t keep updating depending on my workout performance and this was a one-time change?
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Is the AI/ML logic used to set the plans used to minimize workout failures? I always thought that the occasional failure is a valuable data point and a useful experience as long as it doesn’t happen often. Is there risk that the AI/ML will be too effective in avoiding those experiences?
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Does that mean I’m a step closer to being accpted into AT beta or was this applied to all users?
Thank you
Regarding your response to 1 above, can I mimic dynamic AT plan development by hitting “Update” in the plan menu after each workout?
Nope, that would simply “reload” the default plan from the TR catalog.
If you want a hack on accessing your individual Progression Levels, you want to look into the TrainNow tool under the “Workouts” section of the app.
- Look at what it offers in the 3 individual training areas (Endurance, Climbing, Attacking), and see the Workout Levels listed.
- Consider that they are usually offering workouts in the “Achievable” and “Productive” range.
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Note: These actual designations are only visible to AT beta users right now, but the workouts offered seem to fall in these two ranges.
- You see roughly what you can predict for your Progression Level related to that training area, by viewing the Workout Level for each workout offered in TrainNow.
- Use the refresh option to see some different workouts that can help show the upper and lower limits related to your Progression Level, by what you see for the Workout Levels offered.
- Endurance = Endurance
- Climbing = Sweet Spot & Threshold
- Attacking = VO2 Max & Anaerobic
That is the best “cheat” we have seen at this time, for non-AT users to get a sense of their Progression Levels.
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Thanks. I have been hacking AT like that for a while and ended up doing almost none of the original workouts in the plan. But that is not ideal because it doesn’t consider a broader plan perspective and only looks forward to the next ride. I’ll go with the static updated plan and see how it goes. Thanks!
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Is Tempo included in TrainNow now Chad? Last time that i looked and asked it wasn’t.
At that point Climbing included Sweet Spot and Threshold
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Yup, I think I have that kinda wrong. It isn’t “precisely” included, but you will see some lower level SS workouts that are actually below the 88% FTP value that TR uses. So effectively Tempo, but aimed at SS for a progression goal.
I updated above.
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I would really like Tempo to be included in Endurance for TrainNow.
It would be good to hear from TR why they chose to exclude it. Maybe there is a great reason that will help me let go on the issue!
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@rkoswald just in the past few weeks I’ve done Round Bald which is a 4.9, Wright Peak -1 (8.9), and Clark (8.4) that I added extra onto the end. Now have a 3.0 scheduled on Friday.
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