# Are Traditional Base outside workouts correct? **URL:** \ **Category:** TrainerRoad Software\ **Created:** [May 19, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231 "2020-05-19T11:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![schmidt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/schmidt/32/16318_2.png) [@schmidt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/schmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/1 "2020-05-19T11:28:04Z")
I’m looking at the Traditional Base II MV plan and I am confused if the linked outside versions are correct. I know sometimes workouts are adapted for outside but because of inconsistencies with very similar workouts I’m double checking here. For example, Hawk Mountain is translated to Entail which is 3x15min at 0.75 with 30min endurance (on top, the total workout prescription is 10min more than 2h00). In contrast, Hump Mountain, the 15min longer version from the TB II HV plan, is translated 1:1 into an outside workout, but why not translate both in the same way? Springer Mountain in week 3 is translated to Karakul with 6x7 between 0.83 - 0.89. The actual workout never goes above 0.8 and includes sprints. The longer version of the workout from TB II HV plan, Grandfather, is again translated into something totally different: 130min at 0.65 - 0.75. @Bryce linking you here, if you can help or direct this to the right person 🙂 Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Bryce](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bryce/32/72_2.png) [@Bryce](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Bryce)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/2 "2020-05-19T15:15:33Z")
Hey Schmidt, In order to create outside workouts that exactly match their indoor counterparts, it requires a Support Agent to go in and manually build the outside workout interval by interval. For many of our workouts, this has been done, so when you select “Outside Workout” it will push a nearly identical workout to your head unit. That being said, we still have a list of Workouts that have not been given this exact 1:1 outside workout variant. For these workouts, we have a one-to-many relationship, meaning that we link many indoor workouts with a single outdoor workout variant that achieves a similar training effect. We know this is not a perfect solution, but it is a temporary solution since we are working through the list of remaining workouts in an attempt to bring our entire Workout LIbrary up to the same 1:1 standard. I hope this clears things up, let me know if you have any further questions 👍. ---
**Author:** ![schmidt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/schmidt/32/16318_2.png) [@schmidt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/schmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/3 "2020-05-19T15:41:15Z")
Thanks, appreciate the clarification! ---
**Author:** ![ericallenboyd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ericallenboyd/32/37233_2.png) [@ericallenboyd](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ericallenboyd)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/4 "2020-05-19T16:54:52Z")
Same for me last weekend where I was doing a worked from TB MV II and when converted it added 15 min, +10 in tss and changed the name. Overall it as fine and was a nice workout but was confused at first. Just started TB MV III this week. ---
**Author:** ![bbarrera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bbarrera/32/14734_2.png) [@bbarrera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/bbarrera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/5 "2020-05-19T18:15:22Z")
Never noticed in Sept/Oct during TB 1 and TB 2 because I used the opportunity to develop a feel for zone2 and zone3 power (didn’t bother syncing workout to bike computer). These workouts have a pretty simple goal - time in zone - and for the tempo stuff in TB 2 it’s pretty easy to ignore the intervals and just ride in tempo (taking short breaks if needed). I understand some just want to follow the workout as prescribed, but it really is pretty simple for the aerobic endurance and tempo workouts in TB 1 & 2. ---
**Author:** ![schmidt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/schmidt/32/16318_2.png) [@schmidt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/schmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/6 "2020-05-19T18:53:40Z")
thanks for chipping in guys! > [@bbarrera](#): > > for the tempo stuff in TB 2 it’s pretty easy to ignore the intervals and just ride in tempo (taking short breaks if needed) good point, I like it. That would mean for my MV rides of 2h-2h30 on Thurs and Sat that after warm-up I spend the workout (~90-120min for simplicity) between 70-80% which is 190-217W for me. I might just try that as an alternative. when I compare your approach to time in. zone with some of the alternative outside versions, they would be quite a bit different. for example 3x15 = 45min at 203W, or 6x7 min = 42min between 225-241 watts. But I understand the reason for it as @Bryce explained. ---
**Author:** ![bbarrera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bbarrera/32/14734_2.png) [@bbarrera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/bbarrera)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/7 "2020-05-19T19:14:45Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/a/8/a8fe9149cda192f9e58d1da41fc090d2240ead2d.png) for example you mentioned Hump Mtn, just do a warmup and then pedal at roughly 75% which for you at +/- 5% gives you 70-80% at 190-217W. In my experience on flat&windy terrain, it is fairly straightforward to keep power roughly in 20W range by targeting 200W. My main targets on bike computer for something like that: ![Recording - Main Screen](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/e/9/e93e686d4fa36c615ea85ce0d2c46a74483ede83.png) - 10 sec power - lap power - power graph with 1-sec power and average power for entire ride during the ride I’m glancing down occasionally and keeping all 3 at same level, mostly be feel. It took a week or two and then it was pretty easy to “feel” 65% (endurance) or 80% (lower tempo). ---
**Author:** ![schmidt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/schmidt/32/16318_2.png) [@schmidt](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/schmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/8 "2020-05-21T15:13:15Z")
> [@bbarrera](#): > > just do a warmup and then pedal at roughly 75% which for you at +/- 5% gives you 70-80% at 190-217W. In my experience on flat&windy terrain, it is fairly straightforward to keep power roughly in 20W range by targeting 200W. I did exactly that. super easy to do the work like this, just went off feel occasionally checking the power. Took 2-5min recovery breaks when I went through small towns. Planned: IF 0.72 ended with 0.72. it was flat and it was windy (duh, holland 😉 ). even fit in some drills that chad suggested a succes and a lot of fun! thanks for the recommendation ---
**Author:** ![bbarrera](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bbarrera/32/14734_2.png) [@bbarrera](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/bbarrera)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/9 "2020-05-21T15:18:19Z")
Flat and windy here too, it’s really easy to do zone2 by feel. I’ve found it takes a little more mental focus to do tempo and sweet spot by feel. Did a 4x12 sweet spot yesterday by feel and was pretty successful: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/e/4/e43cf882fb7de0b51904bc007ce456b181700db8.jpeg) I really like TR’s zone highlighting for quick visual confirmation. 👍🏼 ---
**Author:** ![felix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/felix/32/12890_2.png) [@felix](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/felix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 7:40am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/10 "2020-08-04T07:40:25Z")
i have a similar problem. i added traditional base mid volume to my plan with all of the workouts being the outside version. in week three volume doesn’t go up as it should be (I believe) resulting lower tss than the week before. ![Bildschirmfoto 2020-08-04 um 09.39.13](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/2/8/28a00fbc67e3b20ded41b2bb8c3702d327865cee.png) ---
**Author:** ![Bryce](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bryce/32/72_2.png) [@Bryce](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Bryce)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/11 "2020-08-04T14:34:21Z")
Hmm, this is certainly problematic, I’ve passed this onto the team to take a look at . We have recently finished making 1:1 relationships for all of our interval-based workouts. however, it seems like there may be a bit of work to do with the endurance rides in the Traditional Base phases. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![felix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/felix/32/12890_2.png) [@felix](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/felix)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/12 "2020-08-29T15:20:17Z")
i’m moving on from traditional base mid vol to high vol and there seems to be a similar problem. week three goes down in tss to week two (volume goes up though) and tss of week four are the same as week two then. the overall tss for outside workouts is also higher than for indoor. is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/13 "2020-08-31T19:33:23Z")
> [@felix](#): > > week three goes down in tss to week two (volume goes up though) and tss of week four are the same as week two then This is correct! As you’re moving from mid volume to high volume, the week-by-week structure will look different (ie the weekly progression in TSS wont be exactly the same, because the intensity within each week will differ, and TSS doesn’t always reflect that change in intensity). > [@felix](#): > > the overall tss for outside workouts is also higher than for indoor. is that correct? Happy to explain this! There’s more info [here on our support site](https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/take-your-training-outside-introducing-outside-workouts/), but comprehensively; riding outside is less efficient. Things like terrain, stoplights, and weather have to be taken into account when heading out to ride (wherein riding inside controls all of these external factors, and therefore allows the workouts to be incredibly precise). To account for these external factors, many TrainerRoad outside workout equivalents will be between 15 and 60 minutes longer (depending on TR workout length) to ensure you are getting the same training benefit while riding outside! ---
**Author:** ![lanyonm](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/lanyonm/32/55632_2.png) [@lanyonm](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/lanyonm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/14 "2021-03-07T22:59:02Z")
@Bryce I think it would be worthwhile for the support team to also have a look at the outside variations of [Town Hill](https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/139269-town-hill), [Allegheny](https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/139270-allegheny), and [Tenaya](https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling/workouts/21529-tenaya). These are referenced as outside alternatives to indoor Sundays in the SSBHV and SPBHV plans. TLDR; The workout as prescribed and the estimated TSS don’t seem to line up in a realistic way. If the TSS estimates are indeed correct, it would be helpful to understand how to ride 3.5hr at 0.70IF and only accumulate 130 TSS (Town Hill). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-traditional-base-outside-workouts-correct/36231/15 "2021-03-08T21:35:53Z")
Hi! Im the ‘New Bryce’. All of our outdoor equivalents are being evaluated. Update here: > [@Pettit outside - double TSS?](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/pettit-outside-double-tss/50672/12): > > Hey, all! UPDATE: After connecting with the team and discussing outside v. inside workouts, we agree they should be updated to show a closer correlation in both duration and TSS. We can see that feedback shows that athletes aren’t struggling with as many outdoor interruptions as we anticipated, therefore, it would be better to adjust those durations to align more closely with the indoor version. With some updates and releases rolling out shortly, we don’t know exactly when we’ll tackle these, …