# Are over-under workouts suppose to be this hard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [November 3, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056 "2018-11-03T18:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![aydraper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aydraper/32/54303_2.png) [@aydraper](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/aydraper)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/163 "2021-01-02T13:50:36Z")
My recommendation. If you are new to TR, don’t do HV. Seriously. Do SSB 1 LV then SSB 2 MV and see how you feel. If you want to ride mode, add in Zone 2 endurance rides. > [@Top 10 lessons from using TR for 3 years](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/top-10-lessons-from-using-tr-for-3-years/49847): > > After watching Ambers’ top 10 training tips from 2020, here are my top 10 takeaways from listening to the podcast, reading the blogs, and using the product since Jan 1 2018. Over that time my FTP has gone from 200 to 270, and I’m closing in on 4 w/kg as a 54 year old masters rider. In no particular order: consistency is king. Pick whatever plan you will do at the highest compliance level For first time TrainerRoad users, I would almost always recommend starting low volume SSB, even if you’ve … ---
**Author:** ![jdman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jdman/32/12908_2.png) [@jdman](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/jdman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/164 "2021-01-02T15:09:52Z")
It does depend, HV is all SS and I didn’t find it an issue when I did it…I have less time now. MV is less time but there are some tough o/u and VO2 work in there which I actually find harder…but then I am a bit of a diesel and like 50m TT. However, SPBHV killed me when I tried that so if anyone is struggling with the base maybe it is time to bail before one of the HV build programmes homes into view! 😬 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![4ibanez](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/4ibanez/32/41353_2.png) [@4ibanez](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/4ibanez)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/165 "2021-01-02T21:58:58Z")
> [@rdt](#): > > Before TR i’m doing 3months of polarized training with zwift. It’s lot of z2 (about 12-13hr/week) and one session of 2x20 or vo2 max interval. I thought that i can handle the HV because the amount of tss per week is as much as my tss before (±600/week) 600TSS of mainly Z2 and 600TSS of Sweetspot are very different in terms of fatigue. Maybe try mid volume, or put together a block of your own depending on your goals. ---
**Author:** ![hmaceachran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@hmaceachran](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/hmaceachran)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/166 "2021-02-04T22:22:19Z")
I did Fang Mtn +1 today. It was my best performance for an over-under workout yet. But, shazam! - was it hard. I was glad when it was over! -Hugh ---
**Author:** ![Klaw](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/klaw/32/36306_2.png) [@Klaw](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Klaw)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2021, 3:42am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/167 "2021-02-05T03:42:33Z")
I used to dread over-unders, but now they are my favorite workouts! no joke! a few things that helped along the way 1. accurate FTP: being someone who tests a higher on the ramp test, doing the KM longer FTP test has really helped set me up for success with over-unders. As said on the empirical cycling podcast regarding why over unders are so hard for some people…“really over and then kinda over”. 2. the mental side: over-unders are tough, but learn to feel the lactate build up and know that near the end of the under section you’ll be ok! generally over-unders change pace every 1-2mins, this really helps break up the longer intervals, I used to be stucks on 8 min threshold sets, now I can do 16-20 minute intervals without dreading things! 3. Fuel well prior! carbs carbs carbs! ---
**Author:** ![devolikewhoa83](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/devolikewhoa83/32/7757_2.png) [@devolikewhoa83](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/devolikewhoa83)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/168 "2021-04-12T02:52:55Z")
So just as a headsup, i have also heard of people using “hard start” style FTP intervals, as a way of getting some glycolis / lactate production going, on the theory that it helps stimulate the body to build up the required plumbing to shuttle and buffer (I think the theory is that the presence of this extra lactate while you’re working hard but also long will induce your body to make those transporters that take it out of muscles where there’s too much and into muscles that can use and force it into the Krebs cycle). This could conceivably be an easier way of dipping a toe before doing true over-unders. If it works, maybe it makes them easier for people. ---
**Author:** ![ebla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ebla/32/85102_2.png) [@ebla](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ebla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/169 "2024-10-04T15:01:39Z")
I’m currently in the base phase of my training plan with four workouts per week: one threshold over-under, one endurance, and two sweet spot sessions. Everything else is going well, but every time AI FTP detection raises my FTP, I end up failing the next threshold over-under workouts. I’ve had to either stop the workout or reduce the intensity in every over-under session after an FTP increase. If I do a regular threshold interval at the same workout level, everything goes fine. TrainerRoad doesn’t assign me any other types of threshold workouts besides over-unders. So, moving forward, should I: 1. Continue as before and stop the over-under workouts when I can’t complete them 2. After an FTP increase, lower the workout level for threshold sessions 3. Replace the threshold over-under workouts with another type of threshold session 4. Incorporate more VO2 max or anaerobic sessions into my plan 5. Something else? Would appreciate any advice! ---
**Author:** ![russell.r.sage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/russell.r.sage/32/36157_2.png) [@russell.r.sage](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/russell.r.sage)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 3:16pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/170 "2024-10-04T15:16:30Z")
Failing a out isn’t the end of the world and it’s not surprising that you might fail one after an FTP bump. Are you responding to the survey accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Helvellyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/helvellyn/32/95205_2.png) [@Helvellyn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Helvellyn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/171 "2024-10-04T17:20:19Z")
Are the over unders 95%/105% ones? If you can, it might be worth looking for alternates that are 90%/110%. From personal experience, those are better, and adaptations would be between 99% and 100% the same. ---
**Author:** ![ebla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ebla/32/85102_2.png) [@ebla](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ebla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/172 "2024-10-04T17:51:09Z")
I’ve tried to be as honest as possible with the surveys, but one time I marked poor sleep instead of “intensity” for the reason being that the workout was too intense. The other threshold workouts at the same workout level usually feel moderate to very hard, while the over-unders are always at least very hard. The over-unders I’ve done have been 95/105%, 98/110%, and the workout levels are typically between 4-6 after an FTP bump. ---
**Author:** ![Helvellyn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/helvellyn/32/95205_2.png) [@Helvellyn](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Helvellyn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056/173 "2024-10-04T18:04:49Z")
Yeah … when the unders are within 5 watts of where your FTP is (is possibly isn’t) you’re basically doing over/ats or threshold-with-bursts, which are great workouts but just too damn hard for most people most of the time. Lowering the unders down towards Sweetspot or Tempo will mean you can still do quality work without burying yourself. [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-over-under-workouts-suppose-to-be-this-hard/5056.md?page=8)