# Are 60-90 min Z2 Workouts a Waste of Time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [February 25, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412 "2023-02-25T01:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/21 "2023-02-25T18:08:05Z")
> [@prevwahoodealer](#): > > traffic light stops do not occur indoors There was a recent study, the implications of which are pretty much; that those traffic light stops will deliver a longer duration at peak stroke volume during Z2 endurance outings. In other words they may actually be beneficial when looking at improving stroke volume. Central vs. Peripheral discussion etc. ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/22 "2023-02-25T18:29:05Z")
> [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > beneficial when looking at improving stroke volume. Can we get an ELI5 on stroke volume and the importance if it? M Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/23 "2023-02-25T19:05:09Z")
No idea what that sentence means, what is an ELI5? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conductor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/the_conductor/32/86049_2.png) [@The\_Conductor](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/The_Conductor)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/24 "2023-02-25T19:06:00Z")
> [@AussieRider](#): > > Can we get an ELI5 on stroke volume and the importance if it? M > Thanks. Stroke volume (SV) = the volume of blood the heart delivers to the body with each beat Cardiac output (CO) = volume of blood the heart delivers to the body per unit time CO = SV x HR Bigger SV = lower HR for the same CO ![2035 Factors in Stroke Volume](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/original/3X/c/e/ce214d71553378e19c6aeb50b8377f0364c81d31.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![mtbjones](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mtbjones/32/12895_2.png) [@mtbjones](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mtbjones)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/25 "2023-02-25T19:13:25Z")
Explain It Like I’m 5 years old. ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/26 "2023-02-25T19:25:53Z")
Ok in ELI5 style Stroke volume is a measure how healthy your heart is. It measures how much blood is pumped with each beat of your heart. A healthy heart can pump more blood with each beat, which is good for your body. The more blood per beat, the more efficient your heart is; the better your endurance will be. ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/27 "2023-02-25T21:35:54Z")
> [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > Stroke volume is a measure how healthy your heart is. It measures how much blood is pumped with each beat of your heart. A healthy heart can pump more blood with each beat, which is good for your body. The more blood per beat, the more efficient your heart is; the better your endurance will be. Perf. Thanks. I wonder if RHR is a correlated to a higher stroke volume. If that’s the case I’m winning. lol ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/28 "2023-02-25T21:37:54Z")
> [@Larzi](#): > > I remember that their conclusion was that overall volume was more important that the length of the individual workout. Just finished the podcast. This actually nailed it. 10 x 1hr Z2 workouts has a similar effect to 2 x 5 hr Z2 workouts. As others have said it’s about overall volume. Of course there are other adaptations to be gained from a longer ride but to answer my own question; No they are not a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![trpnhntr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/trpnhntr/32/93473_2.png) [@trpnhntr](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/trpnhntr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/29 "2023-02-25T21:54:25Z")
> [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > It measures how much blood is pumped with each beat of your heart Are you even a cyclist if you haven’t been diagnosed with left ventricular hypertrophy? ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/30 "2023-02-25T22:22:34Z")
> [@AussieRider](#): > > Thanks. I wonder if RHR is a correlated to a higher stroke volume. > **[Athletic heart syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome)** > > Athletic heart syndrome (AHS) is a non-pathological condition commonly seen in sports medicine in which the human heart is enlarged, and the resting heart rate is lower than normal. > The athlete's heart is associated with physiological cardiac remodeling as a consequence of repetitive cardiac loading. Athlete's heart is common in athletes who routinely exercise more than an hour a day, and occurs primarily in endurance athletes, though it can occasionally arise in heavy weight trainers. The con... ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/31 "2023-02-25T22:27:44Z")
> [@prevwahoodealer](#): > > Well at the end, it is all about volume That is certainly part of it, but not all of it……an arguably larger part is consistency. You are going to get more out of 5 days if 1 hour rides than 1 five hour ride. ---
**Author:** ![Bioteknik](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/bioteknik/32/7721_2.png) [@Bioteknik](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Bioteknik)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/32 "2023-02-25T23:27:11Z")
I’ve argued this for years when seiler was preaching long training sessions as where big adaptations occur. Overly long sessions aren’t beneficial in my experience without the supporting consistency the rest of the time. ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/33 "2023-02-26T01:38:41Z")
> [@Bioteknik](#): > > Overly long sessions aren’t beneficial in my experience without the supporting consistency the rest of the time. Is anything beneficial without supporting consistency? And assuming there is consistency my unsubstantiated belief is there’s value to be had in 3+ hour rides. Especially for those racing a longer format (Ie over an hour). ---
**Author:** ![OreoCookie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/oreocookie/32/8298_2.png) [@OreoCookie](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/OreoCookie)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/34 "2023-02-26T01:59:26Z")
> [@AussieRider](#): > > Is there any point to doing 3 of these a week as opposed to 1 or 2? Is it better just to take an extra day off? Yes. Shorter Z2 rides are not replacement for volume, but you benefit from them nonetheless. I often tack on short endurance workouts to intense workouts. Are shorter endurance rides better than long endurance rides? Nope. What if the total volume remains constant? Then I’d say whatever makes you more consistent is better in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Jolyzara](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/jolyzara/32/97333_2.png) [@Jolyzara](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Jolyzara)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/35 "2023-02-26T02:03:14Z")
> [@mtbjones](#): > > Explain It Like I’m 5 years old. Hard work + Recovery = Improvement ---
**Author:** ![oldandfast](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/oldandfast/32/118550_2.png) [@oldandfast](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/oldandfast)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/36 "2023-02-26T03:52:55Z")
> [@AussieRider](#): > > 10 x 1hr Z2 workouts has a similar effect to 2 x 5 hr Z2 workouts. This is not quite right. The great Ben Levine, did some long term studies where the _frecuency of the exercise dose \>= 4d/wk_ was the key to cardiac remodeling. ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/37 "2023-02-26T04:11:22Z")
> [@oldandfast](#): > > This is not quite right. The great Ben Levine, did some long term studies where the _frecuency of the exercise dose \>= 4d/wk_ was the key to cardiac remodeling. I was simplifying. ---
**Author:** ![GoLongThenGoHome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/439d5e/32.png) [@GoLongThenGoHome](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/GoLongThenGoHome)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/38 "2023-02-26T13:19:42Z")
> [@AussieRider](#): > > And assuming there is consistency my unsubstantiated belief is there’s value to be had in 3+ hour rides. Oh I think there’s definitely value in the long ride. The long endurance ride is a staple of my weekly riding. But I also have a medium duration endurance ride, then a shorter endurance ride in the week. If you can have a consistent 4-5 day frequency each week, that includes the long endurance ride; you are on to a winner. The “Is one 5 hour ride better than 5 x 1 hour?” comes up a few times. But I’d be interested to hear of someone in real life who has that choice. If you can do 1 x 5 hour or could do 5 x 1 hour; why can’t you do 4 x 1 hour plus 1 x 5 hour? If you have 5 hours you can spare in one block on a day during the week; how does doing 4 x 1 hour on other days of the week subtract from it? I reckon most people on social media could free up quite a few hours by getting off it and riding instead. ---
**Author:** ![Power13](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/power13/32/92171_2.png) [@Power13](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Power13)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/39 "2023-02-26T14:30:01Z")
> [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > But I’d be interested to hear of someone in real life who has that choice. If you can do 1 x 5 hour or could do 5 x 1 hour; why can’t you do 4 x 1 hour plus 1 x 5 hour? We have no idea what constrictions others have in their ride schedule……young kids, demanding jobs, ”honey-do” lists, etc. If someone says “I only have X hours to train in these chunks, how can I maximize it”, we should accept it. Asking someone to go from 5x1 hour / day to 9 hours / week with one 5 hour ride is a probably not realistic for many. > [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > I reckon most people on social media could free up quite a few hours by getting off it and riding instead. It really isn’t an either / or scenario. I use social media as my “coffee break” at work….we Ave a small office and there aren’t many people to socialize with, so I take mini-breaks on here. It isn’t like I can save up those mini-breaks and then suddenly have an extra hour or two to ride that day. ---
**Author:** ![AussieRider](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aussierider/32/95215_2.png) [@AussieRider](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AussieRider)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412/40 "2023-02-26T14:47:02Z")
> [@GoLongThenGoHome](#): > > If you can have a consistent 4-5 day frequency each week, that includes the long endurance ride; you are on to a winner. Yup. I’m lucky. I typically have the time. I ride 5-6 days a week. Trainer 1 x 60-90min threshold 1 x 60-90min Vo2 0-1 x 60-90min Z2 Outdoor 2-3 x 3-5 hour easy unstructured rides. I’ve ditched the SS workout this season. If I’m short on time [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/are-60-90-min-z2-workouts-a-waste-of-time/81412.md?page=3)