# Applying Vo2max/lactate test results to my TR plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Training\ **Created:** [February 8, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516 "2020-02-08T19:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AaronRocky](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aaronrocky/32/7746_2.png) [@AaronRocky](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AaronRocky)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/1 "2020-02-08T19:44:29Z")
I’m currently doing workouts the TR plan builder is feeding me with and I have been doing ok. I’m in the middle of SSBMVII right not with an FTP of 276w after last Ramp test. I took a blood lactate test and vo2max breathing mask ergometer test a week ago. That test had me doing 30w steps of 3min blocks until exhaustion. Final step was 345w and I finished it before I folded at 189 bpm after 30 minutes. There was no fan in the room but I do use one at home which helps a ton with RPE. Here are the results I got using my Assioma Duo -pedals I had with me: 1. Lactate threshold at 160w / 135bpm 2. Lactate threshold at 250w / 165 bpm Vo2max of 56,6 ml/kg/min Lactate(max) 16,9 mmol/l Max bpm 189 / 340w. Weight 73kgs / 161 lbs Lets hope the link works: [https://www.trainerroad.com/career/aaronrocky/rides/72464551-vo2max-lactate-test-in-lab](https://www.trainerroad.com/career/aaronrocky/rides/72464551-vo2max-lactate-test-in-lab) I heard 12 mmol/l is usually considered a high value for max lactate, but 16,9 is not unsusual. The tester said that I can hold power over the threshold for a decent time, but I should do more training at the lower lactate limit (1 mmol/l / 135bpm) range. I know FTP is the theoretical amount of work in an hour and lactate threshold (anaerobic) is not the same, but should I modify my plan knowing my anaerobic threshold now? I had trouble with the build and specialty phase last summer and I’m dreading those workouts yet to come. I know the infamous Mary Austin has to feel really hard, but not completely destroy you. I don’t have problems finishing vo2max workouts with 1-5min intervals etc. Its the threshold, overunders and sweetspot I’m concerned with. I can finish those, but I’m wondering if I push too hard only to gain less fitness and dig myself in a hole? I think the Ramp test is giving me and inflated FTP-value when in comes to SS/threshold typo of workouts. I’m thinking of reducing the intensity by 5% for these workouts and easier workouts and keep the intensity in the vo2max workouts the same. Am I on the right track? ---
**Author:** ![AaronRocky](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/aaronrocky/32/7746_2.png) [@AaronRocky](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/AaronRocky)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 7:51am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/2 "2020-02-10T07:51:07Z")
Replying to myself in case someone else is interested in this. Found some insight into my problem from Trainingpeaks. This is about 20-min FTP test realted to anaerobic capacity, but I think it relates to the ramp test too which is IMO more about anaerobic capacity in my case: > **[The Physiology of FTP and New FTP Test Protocols](https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/)** > > The standard 20-minute FTP test might not work for all cyclists. Using WKO4 for deeper analysis, these Empirical Cycling Tests could be an alternative. "Many popular training methods today are aimed squarely at improving 20-minute power. While improving 20-minute power can be a sign of progress, we don’t know if we’re truly increasing FTP, which is the amount of power that can be put out at maximal lactate steady state (MLSS). While in this state, an athlete will fatigue in between 30 and 70 minutes (known as time to exhaustion, or TTE)1 rather than the traditionally defined 60 minutes. It’s easy to see that FTP is not always 95 percent of an athlete’s best steady-state, 20-minute effort. In WKO, the Aerobic Anaerobic Contribution chart will show us how power at 20 minutes can be different relative to FTP. This chart is pictured below for a well-rounded elite female road cyclist, and we can see an 11-watt anaerobic contribution at 20 minutes with a power of 279 watts. **Her FTP of 268 is 96.1 percent of this power, and she can hold it for about 40 minutes. The second chart below is from an elite male track racer. At his 20-minute power of 262 watts, there is a 24-watt anaerobic contribution. His FTP of 238 watts (at a TTE of 75 minutes!) is 90.8 percent of his 20-minute power."** Also foudn this from the article concerning the relation between FTP and lactate threshold. Second lactate threshold is usually at 4mmol/l and anything above that is considered anearobic: **“FTP is an individual’s power output in watts, or work rate in kilojoules per second, at MLSS. It can be held for approximately 30 to 70 minutes (a 30- to 70-minute TTE) at a blood lactate concentration of 2-8 mmol1.”** ---
**Author:** ![DaveWh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/davewh/32/13120_2.png) [@DaveWh](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/DaveWh)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 1:24pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/3 "2020-02-10T13:24:47Z")
> [@AaronRocky](#): > > I’m thinking of reducing the intensity by 5% for these workouts In summary, this. There are a lot of threads related to this topic of ramp test FTP vs MLSS and how to adjust your training if ramp retest overestimates FTP. A lot of great reading of you have the interest/time. Here’s a few examples: > [@SSB II is killing me](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/ssb-ii-is-killing-me/25862): > > Finished SSB part one. The workouts seemed reasonably turned to my ability. Took ramp test at start of phase 2 and got 6 watts higher. Seemed like a small enough but reasonable gain based on how I felt when I stopped. So I start phase 2 and I can’t get through a whole workout without turning the intensity down to 95% half way through. Some of that might be mental or maybe environment based (like maybe I need more cooling fan power idk) but I’m running my HR up to 185 regularly and my max is 190… > [@Harsh Reality - You OVER test on FTPs (support group)](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/harsh-reality-you-over-test-on-ftps-support-group/10342): > > WHO ELSE SUFFERS OR HAS SUFFERED WITH THIS CONDITION Thoughts that you MAY have a problem: Did I actually over achieve on the Ramp Test and reach a higher FTP than I can train with? No way, you can’t “overdo” the ramp test! You are awesome and your FTP is NOT too high: You struggle through week 1 of the plan, burying yourself and grinding through intervals so you can hold on to this great new FTP. You finish the first few workouts, barely, but at what cost? You’re overreaching: Eventu… > [@Lactate Testing - Data and Results](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/mlss-test-result-1-of-a-planned-series/6484): > > Edit: Anyone with lactate data that wants to share or discuss is welcome to post in this thread!!! Most of you know what MLSS testing is so won’t clutter with details here. For those not familiar, FasCat Training has a nice post on the topic and web search will turn up numerous articles on the topic. Background: Myself and several buddies are gearing up for “serious” runs at 40km TT PRs and/or USA Masters National and/or the New Jersey Time Trial Series in 2019. All master’s age athletes age… > [@Quality over Quantity vs. 80/20 (or Chad vs. Matt ;))](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/quality-over-quantity-vs-80-20-or-chad-vs-matt/3962): > > I’m under the impression that Jonathan, Nate and Chad are fans of Matt Fitzgerald so I’m especially curious about this. In his 80/20 triathlon book Matt takes the stance that an 80/20 easy to moderate/hard distribution gives you the biggest training effect even when only training 45 minutes per day on average. This is more or less the volume of a Olympic triathlon base low volume on Trainerroad and the distribution of load is clearly more heavy on the non-easy side than that - the argument being… > [@That Triathlon Show | EP#169 - FTP, VO2max and VLaMax](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/that-triathlon-show-ep-169-ftp-vo2max-and-vlamax/11992): > > A bit more (and IMO better) deep-dive into VLamax than the Velonews podcast. Personally, answered most of the follow-up questions I had after listening to the Velonews interview. (Chapeau! @Mikael_Eriksson) > [@Recent Flo podcast with Steve Neal](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/recent-flo-podcast-with-steve-neal/20765): > > Anyone listen to this. All about raising FatMax, potentially very interesting but I felt the podcast could have done with serious editing; veered off in way too many directions It’s about raising FatMax and then we have this discussion on how not all Vo2 intervals are the same; and the host clearly was out of his depth Linked to the (IMO) harsh complaint about Jonathan interrup[ting Chad too much; clearly Jonathan also knows a lot and wants to share. This host (apologies) does not - sometimes … ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Doughnutman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/captain_doughnutman/32/7694_2.png) [@Captain\_Doughnutman](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Captain_Doughnutman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/4 "2020-02-10T14:14:54Z")
> [@AaronRocky](#): > > Found some insight into my problem from Trainingpeaks. Read all about it here: > [@Kolie Moore's FTP test protocol](https://www.trainerroad.com/forumt/kolie-moores-ftp-test-protocol/24686): > > I’ve seen some mention of this in some other threads, but I’m wondering who here as done one of Kolie Moore’s FTP test protocols, and how it worked for them. I’m thinking of giving one a try and wanted to gather other’s experiences and how they constructed a workout based on his descriptions. In particular, what would be a ‘gradual’ increase in power for the baseline and progression 1, which is what I would be experimenting with. ---
**Author:** ![Ian747](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ian747/32/23525_2.png) [@Ian747](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Ian747)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/5 "2020-02-10T14:52:39Z")
I personally would like the option to set my FTP and my VO2max value (could be based on estimated 5 min. power) as anchors for the prescribed intensities for workouts. Having this ability could greatly increase workout compliance depending if you over or under test your FTP. Personally, I get a pretty good value from the ramp test for my FTP, but it inflates my V02max and I struggle with 2-4 minute efforts. I know I can just turn down the intensity, but knowing the ramp test gives me an inflated anaerobic value, it would be nice to have the ability to fine tune it. The same fine tuning could obviously go the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Brennus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/brennus/32/1318_2.png) [@Brennus](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Brennus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/applying-vo2max-lactate-test-results-to-my-tr-plan/29516/6 "2020-02-10T16:33:05Z")
> [@AaronRocky](#): > > should I modify my plan knowing my anaerobic threshold now? Almost definitely yes, but it could depend on your goals. Two things really jump out to me: 1.) Your lab-measured lactate threshold is 90.5% of your TR MAP-estimated FTP. Of course, you know that already, but think about what that means when you do a workout like Donner. It means you’re doing 3x12 at 105% to 110% of your threshold power. Does that sound like the type of workout you want to target? (It might! For most it probably doesn’t, though) I say it’s hard to do that type of workout week after week. 2.) There is a big difference between your LT1 and LT2! 90 watts. That’s low hanging fruit, for sure, but depending on your goals, it might not matter to you.