🔪 AI is killing my rides

Is this the intended behavior? I am curious if this is what is supposed to happen.

I had a few rides and they were all easy or moderate. Then I get adaptations and they are a huge reduction in workout load.

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what are your current levels?

Hey @CyclingPhotog,

These adaptations appear to respect your Progression Levels. :bar_chart:

Your Sweet Spot PL is currently 1.4, and your Threshold PL is 2.5, so these adaptations make sense to me.

Your PLs dropped due to inactivity in certain zones last week and you just started the Base 1 phase this week which is why you might be just seeing these adaptations now.

Let me know if this makes sense and if you have any other questions about this. :slightly_smiling_face:

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So does it still take into account the race that I have set at the end of June?

Might it increase some as I now have time to train uninterrupted?

Yes, it takes into account races on your calendar.

And, yes, as you complete “productive”, “stretch”, or “breakthrough” workouts your suggested workouts (workout levels) increase accordingly. The amount your next workout increases is based on the level of workout you completed and your answer to the post ride survey. Be as honest as possible on the surveys. Below is a good guide for that.

One thing to note, along with inactivity, your progression levels will also drop with increases in FTP.

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Also remember that this is still relatively young technology. It’s improving quickly, but it simply hasn’t been around that long. Don’t let it override your own judgment unless you feel there’s a good reason to let it do that.

If Tray Mountain (PL 4.0) seems entirely manageable to you, then simply don’t accept the adaptations AI suggests. If you complete it, and mark it something like “Hard”, your PL will immediately increase to 4.0 and the computer will make a better recommendation next time.

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This is a regular issue for me with e.g., Endurance PLs because I do most endurance stuff outside, so TR puts my Endurance PL really low.

If you just do a workout at a higher level (that may be rated Stretch or Breakthrough for example), your PLs will go to that level afterwards and future workouts in the zone will be based on that level (plus some progression) as well.

If you have a long stretch to train interrupted, one of the things that will happen is that if you do the e.g PL 1.4 SS workout and then rate it easy, the next SS workout is likely to adapt a lot higher - I often find the second workout in a set gets a significant bump if the first one was a low PL and I found it easy.

It’s important to understand that if you haven’t done a workout in that zone for a while, TR simply doesn’t know what your ability is going to be in that zone (this is something WLV2 is meant to be fixing, if it ever happens…). So you need to use a bit of judgement if you haven’t done a TR workout in a particular zone for a long time. If you are doing them regularly it shouldn’t be an issue as it will quickly adjust to your current level.

Here’s an example from my recent history - I was prescribed Paniau which is Anaerobic 1.5 because my PL was only 1 having not done any anaerobic for ages. Then the second one in the set adapted up to 3.5 - Stretch because I found Paniau easy (to be fair I knew full well I would find it easy but since I’d run a half marathon the day before I decided to do it anyway!)

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Agreeing with TR and just to point out it’s really not a huge reduction in work load at all. It’s tweaking it down and making the coming weeks more achievable.

It’s no longer about what workout you can complete today, it’s about the optimal workout setting you up for the next, and consistency over weeks.

Plus it adapts the other way too, so if you truly find Fox easy, it will up the progression levels more quickly.

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Going from Tray Mountain to Fox is a pretty huge reduction in my book. It might be just what he needs, but those workouts are nothing alike.

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70kcal apparently, 10%

3x12min to 8x3.5min

Peoples feelings will always vary

Hardly “killing” a workout by most standards

Huge? Opinions will vary

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Or 22% TiZ

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Remember that AT is only a suggestion. If you’re feeling stronger/weaker than what’s suggested nothing is forcing you to follow their plan. If you think tray mountain and starlight are doable for you or would be worthwhile to attempt why not ignore AT? For my part I usually have AT on for the start of a plan to get the workouts up or down to whatever PLs I’m currently at. After that I usually end up turning it off because the “adaptations” i.e. suggestions tend to either not look fun or not be what I’m looking to work on. Either just hit skip till you do those workouts and raise your level or turn off AT and turn it back on if you feel things need adjusting.

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I wish I knew this chart earlier. I have been marking the efforts way less than they actually were. Most of mine are moderate but I have been marking them easy.

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3.5 minute intervals in SS are worthless. 12 minutes in sweet spot is hardly a stimulus. I’d be annoyed if I were OP as well.

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For the record, here is the official TR article on workout surveys: https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404884465563-Post-Workout-Surveys

How to Rate Your Effort

  1. Easy
    This ride felt easy and non-taxing, requiring little effort or focus. You could repeat the ride and pass it without issue.
  2. Moderate
    This ride was somewhat comfortable but required some focus to complete. You felt a little challenged but had confidence that you could finish. If the ride had an additional set of intervals, you could complete it.
  3. Hard
    This ride required effort and focus and was challenging to complete. This will feel tough and you’ll look forward to this ride ending. If there was an additional interval, you could have done it with some focus.
  4. Very Hard
    This ride was very difficult to complete. This ride tested you. If there would have been one more interval, you wouldn’t have been able to do it.
  5. All Out
    This ride was extremely difficult. It pushed me well beyond my abilities and took a massive amount of energy and focus to complete. You’ll feel like you barely made it to the end of this ride, and that you had to pull out every mental trick in the book to finish.

The colored and more lengthy one shared above is mine. But I made it after extensive discussion with TR reps after the survey was initially released and discussed as a point of confusion.

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I agree with you… but they can be a good “week 1” rust buster after a break… Or a “gotta do something” workout in the middle of a recovery week. There was a post above from TR that mentioned they are just starting base and the PLs dropped due to inactivity. Don’t know if this is the case here not seeing their calendar.

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Adaptations are suggestions, you can do whatever you want, the same goes with RLGL.
The way I look at it TrainerRoad is only trying to help people avoid burnout. The end of the day we can choose the suggestions or not.

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If you think thats the case, why use a training system you don’t agree with?

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According to the “AI” my sweet spot capacity was like a 1.5 or something. I did my first SS workout the other day and started with a 7.8. Wasn’t hard either.

You know your body better than the software. Pick the appropriate workout based on what you know you are capable of.

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I know some people are gonna vehemently disagree with me, but with a properly ascertained ftp, 60min time in zone should be totally doable. I have some novice people start off at 2x20 as a conservative start. I’d encourage people to start higher if they know their ftp is solidly set

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