# Adaptive Training Is Now Out of Beta & Fully Available to All TrainerRoad Athletes! **URL:** \ **Category:** TrainerRoad Software\ **Created:** [August 19, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164 "2021-08-19T16:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ChefAcB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chefacb/32/144835_2.png) [@ChefAcB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChefAcB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 10:51am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/127 "2021-09-10T10:51:44Z")
That could be the case, as long as it’s consistent it doesn’t bother me. Maybe they’ll clarify what’s happening with survey responses, if they’re individual or something else. I also feel they don’t want to share too much information because people will then manipulate survey responses to give them harder workouts. Thus leading to burnout and whatnot which was why they created AT in the first place, to prevent overtraining/ burnout. ---
**Author:** ![Macy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/macy/32/6458_2.png) [@Macy](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Macy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/128 "2021-09-10T11:57:55Z")
I’ve been “successful” in that I’ve completed a workout, but rated it as All Out, and got the fail survey. Presumably as it shouldn’t have been all out RPE! ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/129 "2021-09-10T12:31:35Z")
My best bet is that All Out will always give the Struggle survey. Like others, I’ve never had that survey for any other rating. But based on what it seems TR Support added, that may be changing. If so, it would be REALLY nice to actually know that for certain from TR. ---
**Author:** ![ChefAcB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chefacb/32/144835_2.png) [@ChefAcB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChefAcB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/130 "2021-09-10T12:42:17Z")
Agree maybe @IvyAudrain can shed some light when it’s morning time on the west coast. ---
**Author:** ![brenth](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/brenth/32/12893_2.png) [@brenth](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/brenth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/131 "2021-09-10T12:54:37Z")
I dont know if there is a standard response. I never used hard for a workout until yesterday. I received a response after marking the workout hard asking what made it hard. In my case I answered training fatigue. To me it is just more data capture. ---
**Author:** ![Macy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/macy/32/6458_2.png) [@Macy](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Macy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/132 "2021-09-10T12:58:35Z")
Yes, but really my point was (and something I’m only learning) is to be honest in the survey results. That workout wasn’t _just_ “very hard” based on the description, notwithstanding a reduction in intensity. Regardless of what happens back end, surely the survey result should’ve been All Out? Then complain if the adaptations down don’t happen, rather than say AT isn’t working after not being honest with the survey! ---
**Author:** ![mcneese.chad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/mcneese.chad/32/15056_2.png) [@mcneese.chad](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/mcneese.chad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/133 "2021-09-10T13:10:14Z")
Of course, nonetheless and consistency is essential. I’ve worked hard to nail down what the survey responses really mean. There has been [more than a little confusion and ambiguity over them](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/at-easy-vs-moderate-vs-hard-vs-pass-success-survey-responses/60585) from the very start. I made [my own definitions](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KQyXTQ3IbmYLys2veC3dhWFNicLIYe_rxqj7F5XzzM0/edit?usp=drivesdk) from the start (when all we had was a single word and number) and then refined it with communication from TR. I know have better definitions for each level and use it as such. ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/134 "2021-09-10T13:37:06Z")
Interesting 🤔 Did you manage to hit your individual intervals targets ? Pre TR I’d always finish my ex-coach’s session but on the last block I may have dropped to an intensity that let me finish. Pure guess but if I did that in AT TR would label that as a fail (a failure to hit targets) whereas its a successful completion of the work out (duration wise). ---
**Author:** ![Macy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/macy/32/6458_2.png) [@Macy](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Macy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/135 "2021-09-10T13:47:18Z")
Hit targets, but it _was_ all out. So that’s what I put. Smith -2 earlier this week. (I had some connection issues, so only one pause was a genuine pause due to the workout). Actually when I went to check it there, my survey result hadn’t seemed to register, so I again went “All Out” and got the struggle survey. This week has been tough, but that’s partly my fault, as I rebuilt with me not making my A event. Hard event last weekend, and that plan rebuild turned this week from recovery to work (with next week as recovery). ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/136 "2021-09-10T13:53:22Z")
I think a TR person said somewhere that when that happens it defaults to a fail/struggle survey and you have to over ride it with ‘I did not fail this workout - Device Issues’ but I couldn’t say for certain. ---
**Author:** ![Peter.V](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/peter.v/32/81383_2.png) [@Peter.V](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/Peter.V)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/137 "2021-09-10T14:06:13Z")
Still a bit puzzeled concerning the consequences of rides for my personal levels. For example, these are the main rides I did the last few weeks. I nailed all of them. No pauses, no backspinning. Reached and even exceeded TSS & IF for every ride. - McGregor +1 (sweet spot) : “hard” \> result : progression + 0.1 - Dicks -1 (threshold) : “very hard” \> result : progression + 0.5 - Kosciuszko -2 (VO2 max) : “hard” \> result : progression + 0.5 - Antelope +3 (sweet spot) : “moderate” \> result : progression + 0.7 - Jacks +4 (threshold) : “all out (poor sleep)” \> result : progression +0.5 - Tray Mountain (sweet spot) : “hard” \> result : progression 0 - Sanford -1 (threshold) : “moderate” \> result : progression 0 I want to have faith in AT and do not try to “tinker” with the results by means of altering my responses. I try to be consequent. But I don’t understand why some workouts result in a progression (for example after a “all out” one) and why some won’t yield any progression (for example after a “hard” but well executed workout). Since I entered AT, the system only suggested adaptations once. I probably should take this as a sign that both my FTP and my plan are spot on, right? Got a ramp test coming up next week. Curious as to what the future holds in store! ---
**Author:** ![HLaB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/hlab/32/60448_2.png) [@HLaB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/HLaB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/138 "2021-09-10T14:25:09Z")
Just looking at the SS workouts. McGregor + 1 is ranked SS 6.2. Your career SS PL’s must have been at 6.1, hence +0.1 to raise your career SS PL to 6.2. Antelope + 3 is ranked SS 6.9 so doing it raised your career SS PL from 6.2 to 6.9 (+0.7) However, Tray Mountain is ranked SS PL 6.9. You are already at that level (well done) and you won’t progress your career SS PL (Result Progression = 0) Regardless of the survey responses. ---
**Author:** ![sudarkoff](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/sudarkoff/32/100694_2.png) [@sudarkoff](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/sudarkoff)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/139 "2021-09-10T14:29:39Z")
Trying to explain any ML is a bit like reading tea leaves, unfortunately. What you see is not what’s happening under the hood. Also short durations—one or two datapoints—are not enough to draw any conclusions. Instead of looking at each individual workout, try to see if the overall plan and your improvements over time make sense. I also don’t think we should expect adaptations often. It would suggest that your plan almost never makes sense and the AI is constantly trying to catch up, whatever that even means. ---
**Author:** ![trpnhntr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/trpnhntr/32/93473_2.png) [@trpnhntr](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/trpnhntr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/140 "2021-09-10T15:31:37Z")
Just to add my recent experience… This morning I did a custom workout intended as a 40 minute threshold effort. I marked the effort as hard and was then given the fail survey afterwards. I answered that truthfully and submitted. I received all of the expected PL progressions So…my guess is Hard → Fail, you get PL updates. All out → Fail, you don’t get full PL updates. Hard to know though with the relatively small sample size ---
**Author:** ![ChefAcB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chefacb/32/144835_2.png) [@ChefAcB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChefAcB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/141 "2021-09-10T15:37:47Z")
At least I’m not the only one, I think they want more information to feed the system. Makes sense to me that if it was hard, maybe there’s a reason for it. Like I said above most my workouts have felt moderate, not too hard and not super easy. Makes me think they want to give mostly moderate workouts that are tough but achievable. I’m still happy with AT it’s just a learning experience for everyone while it’s in beta. ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/142 "2021-09-10T18:06:19Z")
We are definitely hearing athletes that a better understanding of what survey responses will lead to and how to effectively answer them is a common point of confusion, so the team is working to either add context with more information on the surveys or re-phrase a little to avoid further issues and frustration. Until then, try to answer honestly to how the effort felt, and if you get a struggle survey but dont feel you should because the workout wasn’t a struggle, just answer with ‘I didnt struggle’. However, a workout wouldnt be ‘very hard’ or ‘all out’ if it _wasnt_ a struggle to execute, so it should be categorized accordingly as a struggle. ---
**Author:** ![ChefAcB](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/chefacb/32/144835_2.png) [@ChefAcB](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/ChefAcB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/143 "2021-09-10T18:13:50Z")
I selected “hard” and then get the struggle survey immediately after without the option of “ I didn’t struggle”. Most workouts I have been rating as moderate and thus rating 1 hard I’m assuming the system wants a reason why? I understand the challenge the survey presents because it’s individual in a way and have been rating workouts honestly.Hopefully I don’t sound like I’m complaining because I’ve been happy with AT regardless. ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/144 "2021-09-10T18:20:58Z")
Nice! Thats totally fine, and I think even just ‘hard’ workouts resulting in a struggle survey is meant to provide some room for athletes who arent as accustom to listening to their bodies. ‘Hard’ to some may very well mean they absolutely struggled at times to complete the workout, so best to provide them an opportunity to say that they did and why so that AT can adjust accordingly! ---
**Author:** ![sudarkoff](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/sudarkoff/32/100694_2.png) [@sudarkoff](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/sudarkoff)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/145 "2021-09-10T18:56:16Z")
@IvyAudrain I’m curious if you folks considered a more logarithmic scale (perhaps with a slider)? Similar to what Strava does or how the NPS is calculated. Most of the first half of the slider would be Easy, then Moderate for a smaller chunk that extends past the middle, then a shorter still Hard, short Very Hard almost towards the end, and All Out is the very end of the scale. My thinking here is that human perception tends to be logarithmic and that’s maybe why having Hard in the middle of the scale is disorienting. ---
**Author:** ![IvyAudrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/trainerroad/forum/user_avatar/www.trainerroad.com/ivyaudrain/32/47471_2.png) [@IvyAudrain](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/u/IvyAudrain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164/146 "2021-09-10T19:02:03Z")
Love this recommendation! WIll pass along to the team right away for sure. ⭐ [Previous page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164.md?page=6) [Next page](https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/adaptive-training-is-now-out-of-beta-fully-available-to-all-trainerroad-athletes/62164.md?page=8)