Hi guys, as usual, I appreciate all comments…
Done 4 TTs so far (10-25m), with pretty good results, but have tweaked my position after every event as I’m still not confident the position is good.
Position from my last event below on the pictures, which felt pretty good but I’m somewhat unhappy with the avg speed for the power output (both of which were my PBs, so still feels like an achievement).
It is just the fact that with previous positions I felt like going faster for less power.
402w for 19:56 in a 10m TT (very fast course though).
I also did a pacing mistake and went too easy on the headwind leg (15w avg less compared to tailwind) and this was surely reflected in the overall time.
Current changes compared to pictures:
stem down and 30 deg angle at the arm pads
The extensions tips remain at the same height
Moved the extensions inwards, so reach is about 3cm less.
Also moved the stackers inwards, so arm pads are narrower.
This results in narrower shoulders.
I still don’t think can put my head any lower.
More compact position at the front.
Chin closer to my hands.
Ultimately, I know I need to invest in a new frame which is bigger, but I would prefer to explore setup options first.
In my completely non expert opinion I don’t think you need a bigger bike you already look overly stretched out in the first/side photo. I like your front position though. It doesn’t look far off mine I think but I can’t confidently hold it enough if I see a bump/bend in the road etc. Great time btw
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, I’ve upgraded extensions to 400mm ones and used almost all their length to compensate for what felt like a too small frame in the first place (you can see some of my previous setup photos above).
Like I said, it felt good and pretty comfortable but I’m unsure of the aerodynamics aspects (at least in theory).
The only reference I have is from comparing other riders’ positions and their power output, which makes me draw some conclusions on how aero/unaero I am, which may be far from being correct too.
Another aspect is my weight, which is still far from ideal, but I believe this does not play that great of a role in flat, short events?
Is this “hip rotation” conversation potentially a bit confusing? Apologies if you two were prefectly clear on this. However, there seem to be two things here associated with Triathlon and TT bike positions:
The angle of the hip joint relative to the bottom bracket and the vertical. The classic TT/Triathlon thing of bringing the saddle and hip forward so that the angle between the leg and the body is opened up, avoiding a cramped pedalling position.
The pelvic rotation. My TT bike fitter made me realise I can better rotate my pelvis forward, on my saddle, which allows me to lower my back and then drop my head between my shoulders better and be more aero. (Of course the pelvic rotation is in combination with a more forward saddle position.)
I get the impression that
sounds like he may be talking about pelvic rotation, (but i may be wrong). Rather than the rotation of the hip around the bottom bracket as in
Is this ambiguity causing a problem in this conversation, or is there clarity around these two related elements?
Apologies if I am reading too much into this. I’ll step back now.
Just to clarify, I am speaking about hip (or pelvic) rotation. Using the concept I noted above, if there was a big dial on your hip (pelvis), you want to rotate that dial forward. Using that concept, you don’t have to change any of the other body angles, just adjust the stem / handlebars to accommodate the new, rotated position.
I’m not certain @mikemcvea plan to use a longer and lower stem is going to help him much because unless he can further rotate his hips, he will just be folding himself over more, closing off his hip angle. But if he is successful in rotating his hips, the longer, lower stem is likely well warranted.
As for saddles, Mike, they are really personal. The “standard” is an ISM saddle, but I have never liked them…many people swear by them. I am currently using a Specialized Sitero on my tri bike and Power saddles on my roadie and gravel bikes. The Fizik Tri tone seems to work well for a lot of people too. Check with fitters in your area…they should have a range of saddles for you to try. Also see if any local shop has a demo fleet of saddles to try.
Got it, I follow what you’re saying more. Have found that the power works well on the road bike and I’ve been interested in trying the sitero. Unfortunately not much of a tri presence where I live, tons of road/MTB saddles to try but very low stock on TT saddles.
This may be a dumb question but “how” (for lack of a better word) do you rotate your hips further forward? I tried some on my ride this morning and it was doable up to maybe 70-75% FTP, but once I started pushing near threshold I brought my pelvis forward and more upright to gain leverage to push down on the pedals. Also, how do you balance not feeling like you’re falling off the front of the saddle with not smashing your bits into the front of the saddle? I guess that depends on the saddle (to your point), but I feel like if I rotate my hips more, my bits will be lower than my sit bones (so I’d have to dangle off the front… which is more fatiguing and I always feel like I’m falling off the front).
Not a dumb question at all…some say to think about trying to get your belly button onto the top tube…but I think that just leads people to just bend over more at the waist, which is what you are trying to avoid. The best description I can come up with is thinking about rotating the weight off your sit bones and more towards your perineum (i can hear people screaming all ready ).
Which leads to…
With a snub-nosed saddle, you WANT your…ahem…dangly down parts to actually dangle down. That is what keeps the pressure off your perineum once you rotate. Your saddle should be level, or at most a degree or two down) to prevent that “falling off” feeling. For me, angling my arms up ~10* helped lock me in to my position and completely eliminated any forward shift for me. It looks like your bars are pretty level, so maybe see if you can angle the extensions up a bit.
Yes, that’s what I thought.
For me compared to my weight from my racing form years back it is about 10-12kg difference still, so a bit more than just “few pounds”…
Having said that, I’ve lost almost 20kgs already since last spring so it is a continuous process.
I see what you mean. But even so…here are some neat calculations on the 2019 british TT championship and how many watts it would take to win and how many kg of weight loss it would take to win for everybody racing (it’ll make more sense on the site)
It looks like 10kg would save ~ 30 seconds in a 40K TT for the third place finisher. I’m not sure how hilly the course was though.
Pretty solid position, nice job. Saddle looks to be a little high, based on the first shot. I would lower it a few mm and see how it feels/ looks.
My only other comment is that you seem to be a bit stretched out. I’d like to see you bring your elbows back a bit and then you can lower your front a bit more.
Thanks for the link. It is very interesting and a lot more optimistic than I have assumed.
I’m still trying to get the weight down but seems like concentrating on dialling in the position is the way forward.
@joshowenmorris A thought… if you are looking down because of neck mobility, as I have, I do two things
go to a physio who loosens my back and neck
go to a bike fitter who understand this.
Major caveat: TT posiotion and aero is very very very personal. One position does not suit all!!!
My bike fitter changed me to a position where I can dip in the small on my back, (and tilt my pelvis forward) changing the angle of my shoulders and upper back, and opening my shoulders wider. This means my head and neck is naturally in a better, more relaxed position, I can see up the road easily, but I can also drop my head between my shoulders to be more aero, and my helmet sits better against my back.
This is NOT a higher hands position, narrow elbows position, though my hands are, and were, around 100mm above my elbows.
Net result: More aero AND much more comfortable (and safer). PS I am doing TTs from 10 to 12hrs so demand comfort and sustainability.
Recommendation - find a really good bike fitter who understand physiology and aero.
For a high hands position, look at the Zipp Vuka Alumina Evo extensions. They are available in either a 70mm or 110mm rise. There is also a carbon version, but you are just dropping extra $$ for no benefit.
As for your position, you are a bit bunched up…try moving your saddle back a few MM. I don’t usually recommend moving your saddle to extend your reach, but you already have a pretty long stem on there.
Your head is fairly high, so I would defer to a helmet like the Giro Aerohead or Advantage 2, both of which test well usually for people with a high head position. But definitely work on try to “turtle” or shrug your shoulders to lower your head. Big Watts savings if you can do that.
Well yesterday’s TT didn’t go to plan . I had a blowout and went down like a sack of spuds. Looks like elbow and fractures in my wrist. Back to hospital tomorrow to decide if surgery will be required.
).
. I had a blowout and went down like a sack of spuds. Looks like elbow and fractures in my wrist. Back to hospital tomorrow to decide if surgery will be required.