21 year old overtrained on a low volume plan - Need Advice/Help and Reccomendations

Ditto on increasing your protein intake (and also tracking it), and maximizing sleep/improving recovery.

As someone on a 90% - 95% Vegan diet, i was only getting about 0.8 g/kg of protein and I’m quite sure that was not enough for me to recover well and realize the potential benefits of training. I’m closer to 1.3 g/kg now, but i don’t always hit that and even then, I probably need more.

I realized I need at least one daily protein supplement of 20g or more, of which there are many vegan options. Lately I have also been using whey protein supplements, though I know that is not vegan (I think that’s the best use of my 5-10% buffer for non-vegan food!) Even then I really struggle to get my protein.

For the record, this approach of allowing some non-vegan food is consistent with the nutritarian diet, which seems to show a lot of merit (anything increasing most people’s fruit and vegetable intake is a good thing, really!).

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This has to be trolling or some sort of promotional effort. There’s no way anyone in their right mind could possibly believe that being vegan – and basically starving yourself on a vegan diet – would prevent Covid.

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I thinks it’s important to point out that, even if OP is trolling, the information in this thread is great for anyone struggling with eating, disordered eating, or how to be vegan without any issues. I almost think we should rename the thread to reflect that :wink:

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Bleach cures it :upside_down_face:

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In before your post gets deleted LOL. The original post kind of sounds like woo peddling, and is a couple steps away from breaking out the crystals.

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I douse myself in bleach during Vo2 efforts, while eating raw kale.

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Moderator note: I realize the OP kicked off the COVID stuff with an interesting comment, but let’s keep that well in check if you please.

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I don’t believe OP Is trolling

I think its best he seeks some professional advice

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The one thing the last 2 years have taught is that people will believe all kinds of things help prevent COVID. Believing a vegan diet will help boost your immune system is probably the mildest of the beliefs that have been trotted out.

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Just make sure you are eating enough total daily calories.

For a sedentary 21-year-old male, 2500 calories a day is about how much you need to eat to live and not lose weight. If you are biking 6 hours a week, you will need to eat more than 3000 calories a day on average.

Your description sounds like you are closer to making this than before, but make sure you are eating enough calories each day.

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That’s a hell of a promotional pitch if it is…… “Want to fail on low volume exercise, under achieve, feel fatigued and generally hate life? Well I have the diet for you!”

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I think one of the most profound things I came across at the beginning of the pandemic was the notion that boosting immunity might be a bad thing. In 1918 the Spanish flu killed off mostly healthy young people by hijacking the hosts immune system (think cytokine storm like no other). Dr. Michael Greger, the vegan doc I follow the most who influences my diet and lifestyle decisions, actually cautioned people against boosting their immunity through diet or supplements because boosting specific arms of the immune system could pose a threat. Thankfully, the virulence of SARS-COV-2 turned out to not be that of 1918 which could of been madness. Nonetheless, whenever I hear people say it is important to boost one’s natural immunity that’s not always the best practice because of situations like 1918. Immunology is something I only surface level understand, and always have to remain skeptical of certain statements on boosting immunity.

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What are you basing that number on? Based on my experience of measuring RMR, that is extraordinarily high…most people have a RMR between 1500-2000. If you are sedentary, then you only need to add an extra 100-200 cal.

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I don’t see the OP as trolling or promoting a diet. Rather, in my observation I see a stressed out college kid on the verge of entering the real world post college. He’s matured over the last few years through one of the weirdest times in history factoring in the pandemic, politics, wokeness, social media and conflicting strong support on both sides.

Looking for answers and control of an out of control world, he’s turned to the internet and books for solitude. In that finding that the vegan diet and it’s strictness brings structure to his life. Even though it’s strictness is having many negative affects, he can’t see the forrest through the trees and everywhere he turns experts have differing opinions.

There’s great advice in this thread though. However I fear that it will be lost on the OP as he’ll chalk it up to nonsense from boomers.

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not vegan, or even fully vegetarian, but give The Plant-Based Athlete a shot for how to excel as an athlete while staying vegan. def inspired me to eat more plants & less meat, even if I haven’t made the jump completely

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RMR and BMR do not take into consideration any activity you do. Even people who are sedentary burn more calories in a day above their RMR, due to things like moving, or going to the bathroom.

A 6 foot tall 21-year-old male who weighs 140lb has a BMR of ~1700 calories a day. The actual amount they need to eat to avoid losing weight with even a sedentary lifestyle is somewhere between 2000 and 2400, depending on how “sedentary” is defined (and if you are using a 1.2x correction factor, or closer to 1.4).

Most 21-year-olds are going to be going to school/working/shopping sometimes and the amount of walking from these mundane activities is enough to put you over 1.4.

That’s where 2500 comes from - 1710 x 1.45.

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My see food diet, which includes vast quantities of pizza (girlfriends son works at a pizza parlor) cake, and an occasionally salad when nothing else is available has prevented me from having any known illness for at least 5 years.

I should write a book.

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Absolutely…I clearly noted that. If the person is sedentary, you only need to add 100-200 cal / day. Shuffling to the bathroom takes remarkably few calories. A good rule of thumb is that it takes 100 cal to go a mile (regardless if you run or walk). So how many calories do you think you burn moving a hundred feet to the bathroom or to get something to eat? Single digit calorie burn.

But that isn’t a “sedentary” person, which is what you said originally, hence my question…(emphasis added)

For most sedentary people (regardless of age), 2500 calories / day is going to lead to a weight gain.

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To be fair, trying to learn about nutrition is an absolute dumpster fire on a mine field. I tried to learn about nutrition a few years ago in order to improve my diet before I had children. Holy motherforking shirtballs, all the information I found was absolute garbage. I am a scientist by trade, so even though I have zero background in physiology and nutrition science, I know how scientific journals work, how to do some basic sanity checks in fields I am not familiar with, etc.

All of the books that I could find were “[Fad Diet] name: the only way to live healthy”, i. e. books that were meant to promote e. g. keto, veganism, etc. Ditto for Youtube videos. Even books, talks and blogs that sounded scientific in that they cited studies ranged from extremely bad to outright pernicious. The worst ones are people with a scientific background, usually they like to emphasize their PhD as in Dr. xyz, and whose arguments would often be [reasonable point] —> [reasonable point] —> [reasonable point] —> [giant, non-sensical leap in logic]. They’d throw around lots of mechanistic arguments, talk about specific amino acids and chemical reactions, which are inscrutable to a non-expert and then extrapolate. You need to listen very carefully to pick up on that sometimes. As a rule of thumb, as soon as one particular diet is supposedly preventing disease or can cure serious diseases, discard everything they say and run.

Even when they have some point, they focus on marginal to microscopic gains rather than the big picture. Being physically active (like people on this forum are), keeping my weight in check and getting enough sleep regularly will have a ton more impact on my well-being than if I eat red meat or not.

Many of these charlatans are advocating for some specific form of vegan diet. The latter point is also important: typically, it isn’t just veganism, but a particular flavor of veganism like a raw foods diet or a carb-centric vegan diet. (For endurance athletes, a more carb-centric is not a bad thing, but most of these videos are aimed at a general audience.) Just to be fair, adherents to a keto diet aren’t any better. Then there are influencers, many of whom seem to suffer from some form of eating disorder. They’re often very thin, active 20-somethings with no background in nutrition who’d swear that they need to cleanse themselves and fast for several hours. And I am sure that the days that they choose to record videos on are “good days” where they can keep their cravings in check. A lot of them are proud that even without all the recommended supplementation (e. g. Vitamin B12), their blood work shows they are healthy. There are very few channels that show what a vegan diet for normal people could look like (Unnatural Vegan is one), one that addresses issues you need to be aware of (e. g. protein ≠ protein and vegans should be aware of that).

All of this makes it harder for people to adopt a healthy diet, including a healthy vegan diet. I am not exaggerating when I say that learning about quantum mechanics was much easier for me than learning the basics of how to eat right.

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@Clasher, thanks for posting the rational link.

My favorite (omnivore bias here) part is this: “Giving meats a score of zero merely shows his vegan bias; meats are known to have many micronutrients.”