2021 U of T Training Study, p/b TrainerRoad (2022 update: results posted!)

Signed up, aspirationally at this point, since I’m not positive I’ll be able to comply for 8 weeks - but hoping to manage compliance

I wouldn’t chalk this up to prejudice against older riders. When you design an experiment, you need to limit your variables, and having super wide swath of ages doesn’t conform to that. Maybe they didn’t expect to receive such a response/interest from the older cycling crowd.

I think it is actually 6 weeks plus 3 testing weeks, so 9 weeks in total?

In any case I agree that a longer duration would of course be better, but I also think that this is probably going to be the biggest limiter to participation (apart from the age thing). You are essentially asked to put your current training on hold, and trust an unknown program instead. In addition, some of the limitations (no outside rides, no other higher intensity rides, ie no group rides, no races) that have been put in in the interest of variable control will be harder to adhere too, the longer the study goes on. On the other hand, lack of control over training outside the experimental intervention is one of the most problematic issues with other studies I find. I think long term, a balance will have to be found between allowing enough freedom to increase participant numbers, and keeping enough control over the total training to be able to meaningful evaluate the intervention.

2 Likes

Totally agree. Which is often why ‘recreationally active’ subjects are recruited, ie. healthy, generally fit (male) participants who aren’t engaging in any other structured training.

It would be fascinating see the data TR and other platforms have access to, to observe real-world training practices and performance outcomes. And I’m sure they are already using those data to improve the current training plans.

1 Like

Yeah this ruled me out, no running, Zwift Racing or group rides for the duration would really dent my riding motivation. I wish the test well but it wouldn’t work for me.

Has anyone started on the testing weeks? I am planning on starting on 8-Dec-2020, curious how others are faring with the test instructions, etc.

Please don’t share details about any of the HIIT protocol until after the entire study is completed.

I can tell you that we’ve started to see tests roll in for the first couple weeks.

2 Likes

Cool - revised the post to remove that part of the query

1 Like

I’m likely starting on Dec 8th as well, pretty excited to get into it but just taking a mellow week to clean up some random niggles from a long year…

1 Like

After finish the ramp test (UoT version), I could not finish the
40-minute TT tests.

As a long time TR user, my legs are adopted to RAMP test. I feel
really hard to finish the 40-minute tests in the first two test weeks.

The first failure is just because I was overestimate the target power
and I felt it was hard to get useed to the resistent mode of my
trainer.

The second failure was due to dringing cold water before the test. I
was able to focus on my target FTP before I quitted. My stomach was
just too much pain.

What would you suggest? To continue or to re-do it again from the beginning?

Hi, thanks for posting your experience. I can relate! Completing an actual continuous 40min TT is more than double as hard as a 20min test, or a ramp test, IMO! :sweat_smile:

We do require a fully completed 40-minute TT to be able to continue with the rest of the study. I would suggest trying again at a lower power target. Maybe 5-10% lower than where you have already tried, depending on how long you were able to last.

Start a bit easier and split it up mentally into 10-minute chunks. Check in with yourself and ask “can I go harder? Do I have to go easier?” Don’t worry too much about targeting your FTP or any other target. Go with what feels sustainable in the moment.

Finishing the full 40min TT, no matter what your average power is at the end, is a success!

5 Likes

I want to bump this call for study participants again as we get ready for the New Year. We are still looking for and accepting athletes of any ability and training status (although unfortunately still not of any age!)

Now is the time to commit to a highly structured training plan! We will be accepting participants to start the 6-week training (9-week total) high intensity polarized training plan through January. As long as you start by the end of Jan, 2021 you will be able to complete the study protocol and your contribution can be used in our analysis.

More info and register here:
https://www.evidencebasedcoaching.ca/training-study.html

I wanted to tease some preliminary findings, but I’m not allowed :sweat_smile: So I’ll ask a question instead for anyone NOT currently in the study If you are already a participant you’re not allowed to answer!

What percent of your current FTP do you think you could hold for a 40-minute time trial on the trainer?

Current Estimated 40-min TT Power as Percent of FTP
  • < 90%
  • 90-94%
  • 95-99%
  • 100-104%
  • 105-109%
  • 110-114%
  • 115-119%
  • 120% <

0 voters

Sincere thanks again to everyone currently following the plan, we really appreciate the commitment!

2 Likes

U of T “ethics” wasn’t too worried to take $80K from me to do my LLM at 50! LOL

1 Like

Ok apologies in advance for belaboring the point, but this

In addition, you are to refrain from performing other forms of exercise during the testing and training weeks, including all forms of resistance and endurance exercise.

includes yoga and going on walks or hikes, right?

Daily physical activity is totally fine. That includes walking and gentle activities like yoga, but probably doesn’t include a 6-hr hike or 2-hrs of vigorous hot yoga. So please use your own discretion.

In general I think about it like: Does the activity add training load? Or is it part of my baseline lifestyle activity? That will be very individual. We’re asking that you refrain from activities that add training load outside of the study prescription.

And on another tangent, another interesting question to ponder is if there is another category of performing additional activities above ADLs (activities of daily living) that decrease ie recover from training load? Or do those ‘active recovery modalities’ just add additional stress and we would be better off eating another serving of veggies for dinner and going to sleep an hour earlier. :thinking:

1 Like

Interesting. Small sample size (much smaller than the number of current study participants!) but I’m a bit surprised at the number of responses for 40-min TT power < FTP.

Does this imply that TTE @ FTP is typically under 40-minutes?

Here’s an interesting question (IMHO :nerd_face:): if 40-min power is < FTP, but a 40-min TT will inevitably be a maximal effort. Would we be near VO2max by the end? Would we have accumulated a bunch of blood lactate? Or is something else limiting?

If we were able to pace the 40-min TT perfectly evenly at power < FTP, how long into the TT would BLa and VO2 start to rise above steady-state? From the start? Or after some duration after which we can no longer maintain steady-state for whatever reason (fueling, hydration, thermoregulation, neuromuscular fatigue, etc.) ??

Maybe. But I’m asking more about this as a real-world finding, trusting that people are reporting their genuine best estimates of their own 40-min TT power and their FTP, however they define it. Or at least let’s start with the assumption that a 40-min TT is a maximal effort and go from there.

I’m interested to hear why people think their 40-min power would be below their FTP, and general thoughts about what the physiological response might look like when they perform that TT. More of an opinion pole than looking for a ‘right answer’.

and yeah, “FTP is set too high above actual metabolic steady-state threshold” is an acceptable answer.

Follow up question for you @stevemz or anyone else: how long does metabolic steady-state need to be maintained for it to count as below ‘threshold’ ? Can metabolic steady-state be sustained ‘to task failure’ ?

Maybe I’m misinterpreting…but if one assumes TT power as “in TT position” and FTP as “not in TT position”…there could be a reason for the <100%.

(deleted above comment to clarify since my comment was confusing after I re-read it)

A 40 minute sub-threshold TT would be a maximal effort if TTE at FTP is less than 35 minutes. E.g. FTP is 300w and 30MMP is 300w but 40MMP is 290w.

I think what you are seeing in the poll is that most people’s FTP “number” is such that they could not reasonably ride 35-40 minutes at that number.

However, if you are sub-threshold, I don’t think you would be near VO2max by the end of 40 min

1 Like

For me, the key was “on the trainer”. So I said let than FTP because honestly I think mentally I would have a hard time holding my FTP inside for that length of time.

Outside is a whole different story. I’ve done multiple 40ish minute climbs and averaged my FTP over the entire time.

2 Likes