2021 Races & Rides -- Go or No?

The government was not involved in the development of the vaccine in any way shape or form.

Just funding.

the building blocks of the Moderna vaccine have been in development for decades, and were heavily based on the SARS 2002 and MERS outbreaks.

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I don’t have any concerns about politics in terms of the vaccine, and I don’t have any concerns of malice on the part of the FDA or Moderna or Pfeizer developing something harmful on purpose. However mankind does have a history of injecting people with stuff to later find out that it’s poison, knowingly or unknowingly, so the vocal attitude of people who will blindly take anything the government or anyone tells them to without asking questions is more peculiar than those who want to research something before taking an injection. Color me weird

Right. That’s why I’m not particularly concerned. Still…these vaccines were produced with encouragement from the Trump administration, and approved by an FDA under the control of the Trump administration. That is enough to give me a moment of pause. Not saying it’s nearly enough of an argument to not take it, but it is a valid concern IMO.

This on the surface smells of conspiracy theorizing…can you tell me specifically what stuff you’re referring to?

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Judging by the tone of your posts it seems like a waste of my time.

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Side effects of the swine flu vaccine are the most recent examples of rare but significant side effects: https://www.dw.com/en/as-covid-19-vaccines-arrive-europe-looks-back-at-swine-flu-side-effects/a-55813831

For the unknowingly part, there are tons of examples of this both in medicine and just in consumer goods (eg asbestos).

For the knowingly part, the Tuskegee Study is a good example. The govt injected hundreds of black men in the 30s with syphilis to study what would happen if it went untreated for decades. They tested LSD on unsuspecting subjects in the 70s(?). And I’m sure there are other examples.

Edit: to be clear, these past examples don’t necessarily mean that there is anything wrong with these COVID vaccines. But also that it is not wrong to enter the conversation with a health amount of skepticism. It becomes a real issue when people’s skepticism can’t and won’t be swayed by facts.

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I suspect I agree with the majority of your world view, judging by your other posts in this forum. However, as a Brit living in the UK, with a legal background, engaged to a paramedic, I can tell you that the odds of a medic here being criminalised in the way you (and the article you link) suggest are vanishingly small.

Is it impossible? No, it isn’t. But that doesn’t make it likely, either, and using exceptionally unlikely eventualities as the basis for an argument isn’t terribly persuasive, and tends to lead to comparably un-constructive counterpoints.

As I said earlier. We should all abide by the the rules/laws put in place, in letter and spirit. If people want to take extra precautions based on their own perceptions of risk, they are quite within their rights to do so, and shouldn’t be criticised for so doing. Those who do so are wrong, IMO.

But conversely - and this isn’t directed at you - there also seems to be a group of people who seek to guilt-trip (‘by going out of the house at all you’re costing lives!’) those who are not taking every conceivable precaution in every conceivable circumstance. That is equally wrong.

If someone is permitted to race by the laws of their country/state/province, and they choose to do so based on their own perception of risk, they are entitled to. If you disagree with their decision, then your argument is with the rule-makers.

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Pretty much the only thing which matters.

Then again, the laws of several country/state/province/city et al have been abhorrently dismal in stemming the spread of infection (you know who you are!).

I guess this is the “grey/gray area” between legal permission and social responsibility.

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This thread makes it clear that the majority of posters in here are based in the USA. While the outgoing administration will fill a special place in history, the vaccine should not be tarnished with its same legacy. Pfizer, Moderna and others have had almost zero involvement with the Trump administration, a point that pfizer execs were quick to point out when Trump tried claiming credit for vaccine development.
Other countries however have also vetted the vaccine through their own standards and processes which hopefully provide some semblance of legitimacy to what has been approved. So whether or not FDA was pressured or not by Trump, other countries have also approved independent from the USA.

As for conspiracy theories; those that proclaim this is all a hoax moan about a vaccine being used to implant microchips so that we can all be tracked…and do it on websites that actually track you through your 5G device that you spend most of the day with. Even better when apps like Parler made their users upload their SIN and driver license to prove who they were. The irony of it all is astounding.

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As @mwglow15 mentioned…there are instances of egregious abuses if we go back far enough in history. I wasnt trying to be dismissive of your concern…I was just genuinely trying to find out what your concern was. IE legit or conspiracy based.

Sorry if I came across harsh. I’ll fully admit to being a bit on edge (read that as $@&ing pissed…) about the lunatic conspiracy theories gripping a large swath of our country right now.

Well at least you can admit to that, so maybe we CAN have some constructive back and forth. I don’t have SPECIFIC concerns, and I feel like most of the specific concerns people have are stemming from those conspiracies (like that if you’re allergic to eggs you’ll have a bad reaction, or that the vaccine contains otherwise harmful ingredients, which are not actually harmful in these doses and uses). I guess I fall more into the “don’t buy a new car it’s first model year” type of camp, while the manufacturers have done their diligence and so have the FDA, there just has not been enough time to really know what the effects are long term. I think it’s important to distinguish between conspiracy and concern: I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be a bit, weary, of something so new.

That being said, I’ll get my shot eventually. There are way more people ahead of me who need it more than I do as a work from home individual, and the more people get the shot the more we will know. Having several friends in medicine I’ve spent a lot of time speaking to them and getting lots of information (much of which I can’t comprehend) but they’ve gotten behind it, and there are no explicit concerns with the vaccine aside from a few dozen bad reactions, which of the few million vaccinated is honestly not bad at all.

I think we just need to have a clear distinction between people who are ignorant and those who aren’t, and not lump them together but help convince people who have concerns to get vaccinated through education and support, not by just calling them idiots or making it political. Remember, “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar”.

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I think for the most part we are actually in the same place on this. I have concerns about the vaccine also. My only real concern is whether it could trigger a relapse of bells palsy I had years ago. It looks like those concerns are unfounded. My wife just got her 2nd shot this week. I’ll be at the bottom of the list for sure though as well :joy:

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My wife is getting her first tomorrow morning, she’s excited. We had a concern about potential infertility but that went away when we saw that there were women who got pregnant during the studies (one had an unrelated miscarriage). I think some of the people we think are idiots are just scared. Yes there’s a group who genuinely thinks it’s out to harm them or infringe on their rights, but I’m sure some of the people who are saying stuff like “you can’t get it if you’re allergic to eggs” just don’t know how to handle their fear and want to have some excuse to lean on, even if it’s total BS.

I’ve posted some of this elsewhere in this forum previously, but I have been working in the technology side of clinical trials for over 15 years, so while I am not qualified to speak of the science of any of the vaccines, I am qualified so speak on the process and approvals necessary for drug testing and approvals.

It is nearly inconceivable to me that the Trump administration was able to push through a vaccine that is ineffective or dangerous as currently understood. Internationally there are thousands of people with access to the submission datasets and tens of thousands with access to subsets of it. All of them would have to be misled or involved in a conspiracy for there not to be a significant outcry about the data. The number of people necessarily keeping quiet is too large

All this to say - I have high confidence that the data we currently have supports each of these vaccines working exactly as described in the approvals. I am not saying the vaccines will be universally safe and there won’t be some mid to long-term problem found with them - we simply don’t have that data yet, so it is completely unknown

So sure - there will be risks with taking these drugs, but I trust the data we have been told thus far is correct. As much as I dislike and distrust the current (three more days!) administration, it isn’t reasonable to ascribe this power to them

Therefore, I fundamentally disagree that what you describe is a valid concern

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Just a comment as someone in the public sector: please don’t lose faith in public agencies and their employees. As much as stuff may get messed up by politics, agencies and employees by and large try to operate without any agenda. While that may be called “deep state” or whatever, it is really about being seamless and providing continuity regardless of the elected and appointed officials. Ultimately people at the FDA, regardless of pressure, I’m sure have been trying to do the right thing

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Could not agree more with what you have said.

What is more concerning is what has been a prolonged and systemic attack on science and the almost celebration of ignorance or lack of education.

When scientists are having to argue with keyboard karen’s society as a whole has lost.

We might as well just be living a real life version of the big lebowski. That’s just you’re opinion maaaaaaan…

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It’s not like the US is the only country supporting development and approving vaccines.

If the US, UK, Germany, and France all approve something, it’s probably fine.

When someone’s priority is to signal their political outrage at every opportunity whether it’s relative to the discussion or not, critical thinking cannot coexist. Sadly this applies to more than one person

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The only thing we have gotten right so far is the vaccination in the U.K. everyday I know more and more people that have had it. I think we’ll see significant improvements come March- April and I’m confident we’ll see racing as spring turns to summer.

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