Training fasted, do I test fasted?

I am the same, I train at approx 0530 in the morning, I do not eat before hand, I sometimes have an espresso if it looks like a hard one. I’m good for all workouts up to 90 mins (have never done a longer one) I’m on LV plans. Why would you test strong if you’re going to train at maybe a slightly less optimum time? I do not see the logic behind this idea.

Sure, if you’re racing by power numbers then you’ll need to know your stronger FTP in order to produce the best race but if you’re calculating FTP for training then do it when you’re aiming to train.

3 Likes

My question isn’t really about training fasted, it’s about when I should be measuring my FTP for optimal gains from the workouts because I predominantly train fasted.

I’m curious for you guys that do everything fasted @rocourteau @sergio @Crownan

Do you race, and if so, do you ever do long enough events that fuel becomes an issue (i.e. 2+ hours)?

If so - do you ever train your gut for nutrition intake during hard intervals?

I ask, because as part of my training I work in the same foods I will eat on race day. For my longer events (3-4 hours for me) nutrition on the bike is necessary and I need to have confidence that what I’m drinking and eating won’t cause problems if an attack goes up the road right after I’ve taken in a gel or a bar. As such - as race season approaches I’m fueling my trainer rides exactly as I’d fuel a race.

Personally I’m a mountain biker. I don’t roadie, haven’t been outside on the roadie since 2017. I ride most Sundays, 3-4 hours and have one race which is the Ardrock Enduro which is approx 6.5 hours but only the downs are timed so I dont go all out except for the 3 minute stages of which there are 7.

Sundays I eat about 400 cals of weetabix/porridge and I’m good for morning with a Cliff bar maybe 2/3rds of the way in.

For the Ardrock I had about 500 cals overnight oats and greek yogurt and a multitude of random cliff bars, cliff blocks, haribo, a couple of bananas.

Not much help as I don’t do Roadie :blush:

Thanks for your perspective. Interesting to see how the other half lives :slight_smile: Such a different situation on the bike

1 Like

No, I don’t race (I did running, but that’s a different story). When I ride outside, it’s for pleasure (mostly solo), so fueling vs performance is not so much an issue.

1 Like

Make sure you all tune into the podcast tomorrow! Based on this thread, I have a feeling you will be very pleased with the topics! :wink:

7 Likes

I’m with the train and test early in the morning before breakfast camp. I do them like that to stay consistent. I race CX and don’t use a power meter outside so my FTP is only useful for calibrating TR workouts.

I hadn’t thought practicing fueling, but my long rides are for fun so are just an excuse to eat cake! :wink:

2 Likes

@mcneese.chad Have to get the link ready after the podcast for future questions :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

1 Like

Sure, we can link to the Episode 194 content when it is available. :smiley:

1 Like

If it is discussed in the podcast I’d be interested the hear from @chad on whether this is true or not. If you have a reasonable evening meal and ride a short test ride after a coffee in the morning there would surely be no issue with carb availability or performance for that length of ride?

There may be other good reasons to fuel during a ride, for example for optimal recovery afterwards or if you are extending the ride for significantly longer. But would it really affect the results of a ride as short as a ramp test, or even a longer 8 or 20 test over the period of an hour.

Even for those test rides those the majority of the hour ride is at recovery effort and you are only going to be using significant amounts of carbs during the work periods of those which at most is 28 minutes.

How significant is the difference between carbs from fully digested food as opposed to recently ingested fuel?

It can be substantially different based on some of the recent research around signaling. They’ve done some really interesting studies where they gave people a carbohydrate drink and then sucked it out of their stomach before it could be digested and even the taste of sugar can cause your body to allow itself to go harder.

1 Like

Thank you.

I have read some stuff around studies of carb mouthwashes and similar but had thought that was largely around maintaining performance and the body ‘allowing’ access to existing energy stores rather than actually improving performance.

I guess my ultimate point is that if you can do an hour to 1.5 hour workout fasted without feeling the quality is affected why wouldn’t you do a 20 minute workout (i.e. ramp test) fasted. I also think you should test the way you train. Train in the morning, test in the morning etc. I wouldn’t race fasted or do longer rides fasted.

2 Likes

There is a little bigger picture here. It also depends on your normal diet. It is is a Low Carb High Fat and you have been doing it a while then fasted training in the morning is normal.

Personally I do every training session fasted and every test fasted. Saturdays I normally do a CRIT which is 40-45mins long. Normally prior to this race I will do around 60KM fasted then have a banana and black coffee just prior to the start. I feel fine and my performance is good.

I also think a lot depends on how developed your aerobic engine is. I apply the MAF principle to training. I am 42 so I know that give or take my aerobic HR is around 138BPM. When I do sweet spot It normally hovers just under this level for the first few intervals, sit right on it for the next few and the last one it might push slightly over. So once again sweet spot and MAF seem to be aerobic for me.

Probably best to consider your personal situation and experiment a little.

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone! Funny enough I made it down to Podcast 184 today and a user sent in almost this exact same question. They didn’t quite answer it though, the conversation quickly turned to riding fasted in the morning vs. fueled in the afternoon and never really circled back to when the FTP test should be taken. But @chad did basically say morning workouts will never be easy, you just have to find ways to plow through. I did my first ramp test this week fasted and my results were about 20 watts lower than previous 8 min tests done later in the day. Could just be the new format, could be my fueling had an impact. I’m going to let it ride for the week and see how the workouts feel, then go from there. I’m not opposed to eating prior, it just helps me avoid being up a half hour earlier and further pissing off my wife when I wake her up. Can’t wait to hear #194 @Ian

Here’s the forum post for this weeks episode!

3 Likes

The 30 minutes earlier is 100% why I train fasted.

52 years old, 80kg but over 20% fat, try as I might I just cannot burn those fat kilos away.

Yup, that‘ll be interesting and if research shows I am wrong, then I stand corrected. Just listening to my body I know it makes a difference whether I fuel my workouts in the morning with a small breakfast or not. Usually I don‘t for time constraints and because I don‘t need max power, I just need the training.

Besides, if we assume there is a difference between the two FTPs just as I claim, it can still make sense to use your “fasted” FTP as a baseline for your fasted workouts.

1 Like