Fast Start Races, Recovery from Training Late, Cell Signaling and More – Ask a Cycling Coach 236

Thanks @chad, appreciate the encouragement and will definitely look into that book.

Life comes at you in phases, sometimes you have to sit tight and ride it out, and sometimes you can alter your situation and a little research certainly never hurts!

Hey guys, if you go to there’s no new articles since Nov 1, 2019. Same case if you link via “Resources” on your TR Career page. The link at the bottom of the forum does show new posts though.

Fixed! Thank you!

Thank you for thorough answer to my question about late training.
Good to hear that everything isn’t ruined even when training time isn’t optimal.
I used my last Audible credit to buy recommended “Why we sleep”.


Re: drinking coffee before bedtime

I watched my father-in-law drink coffee at all times of the day and night, even right before going to bed. I was always amazed he could that. He didn’t have any trouble sleeping.

I have a question re timing for strength and bike training in the same day that I don’t think was covered. I try to separate these days but sometimes it necessary to do both on one day.

Is there a minimum period of time where your body is able to ‘switch’ from strength to endurance (and vice versa)? For me - there’s usually a 3-4 hour gap between where I turbo first thing then hit the gym at lunchtime.

Also, if I’m doing muscle tension intervals (this was the only bike example I could think of) does the body think this is also strength so it could fit quite well?

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Agree with this. Was listening to the podcast and made a new account to come here and make this point, good to see I’m not the only one who’s read that.

I think Alexey Guzey makes a very good argument that Walker has oversold some of the claims in his book, in particular around sleep duration and mortality, and the claim that shorter sleep always equals shorter lifespan is too simplistic.

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A paper on concurrent strength and endurance training was covered on another podcast. The quick summary is:

  • high-intensity TrainerRoad workouts in the morning, and strength training in the evening
  • low-intensity endurance/recovery TrainerRoad workouts can be done immediately before strength training

More info here: Coach Chad's Strength Training Recommendations For Cyclists

I can fell asleep just as well with or without coffee, but quality of sleep is the thing that suffers at least according to Whoop.

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For those looking for more info on the Ooler, I wrote a few blog posts about my experience. I had lots of trouble with night sweats, so I got it back in August. I had my doubts at first, but I haven’t had night sweats once since then. Actually, I did sleep a few nights without it to test if it was working, and had some rough sleeps because the heat.


I just set up my Chili Pad last night and am trying to figure out the optimal temperature settings. I expected to set it around 65F as I am a hot sleeper, but when i started digging into the research (One Article link below) All the studies showed most benefits from an INCREASED temperature. The studies actually recommend around 32C (89.6F) as the ideal temperature. This does not coincide with my experiences at all and really threw me off. I know cold temperatures promote deep sleep but suppress REM, and warm (VERY WARM) seem to promote REM and reduce wakefulness but reduce deep. Also starting warm helps you to fall asleep.

So my question becomes is there a benefit to transitioning temperatures during the night? Starting mildly warm to help fall asleep, going colder to promote deep, and then shifting towards warmth in the morning to promote REM and reduce waking? Anyone have any other good studies on the subject?

90F sounds ridiculous. Maybe if you could manage to sleep soundly in that environment, you would have better REM, but I would be waking quite often.

Setting it at a cooler temperature (let say 63-67F) works well for me to sleep more soundly and wake up rested). That’s what is most important to me. How much validity there is to measuring REM and deep sleep improvement to me is suspect and tough to put much stock in.

Now that I have a 7 month old, the sleeping through the night hasn’t really applied for a while. I typically turn it on at 67F here in a cool room in Utah (in the summer in Chicago where I used to live I could go cooler). Then I have to get up in the middle of the night and feed the kid at some point usually, and I get back in bed a bit chilly, so I often turn it off at that point to stay warmed for the last few hours of sleep. So there may be something to the cool in the middle of night and warm toward the morning, but if you sleep through with cold I wouldn’t worry about it.

Thank you. I remember listening to this podcast. Think I need to revisit!

@chad there seem to be 2 versions of why we sleep .
1: why we sleep : the new science of sleep and dreams
2; why we sleep : unlocking the power of sleep and dreams

Could you point out which one you are referring to ? Thanks

Agreed. GP’s are not known as specialists in Australia. The typical understanding of “specialist” in Australia is a doctor you are reffered to, who would specialise in a particular area of medicine.

“Why We Sleep: Unlocking…” by Matthew Walker is the one I highly recommend. By whom is the other book written, @Thomas_De_Kesel? I can’t find it on Amazon but you’ve piqued my curiosity.

Hi @chad , i searched in the ibook store , see screenshot attached . The other one is also written by Matthew Walker

@chad i checked the appendix of both books and they are one and the same just different publishers .



I confirmed that I have the main one mentioned by Coach Chad in the Books thread.

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Great question from @apartanen re evening workouts and thank you to the AaCC podcast team for diving into it.

I’m a night owl and often find it a struggle to wake early enough to train before work, especially if I’m aiming for 7-8 hours of sleep. I can’t always fit in training between work and dinner. And I am hesitant to train after dinner, so close to eating a meal. But, hearing that @apartanen trains at 8 pm has me intrigued and wanting to give this a try.

On the podcast there was a lot of great discussion about recovery and winding/cooling down after the evening workout, but no discussion about eating dinner/supper beforehand. If training at 8 pm, I assume there’s an evening meal earlier in the evening. How’s that work? I’ve always eaten after rides and workouts.

@apartanen RE timing of evening meal relative to evening workout, what not to eat, what to eat, what type of workout, etc… Any tips on your approach to making the most of both an evening meal and training?

@chad A lot has been said about timing meals for 2-3 hours before a workout. If an evening workout is the best option, do you have any suggestions, advice, or cautions regarding pre-workout meals (timing, content, effect, etc…)?

Thanks all!