Do we know what the problem rate is for replacement units? It seems to me, anecdotally, there are enough people with recurring issues that would belie a 3% issue rate. I wouldn’t have a problem with returning one unit, but the second unit better be good. If however you are given a refurbished unit then this is a nightmare scenario because you could be stuck in a world of always replacing your unit from a population with high failure rates. This perception is what scared me off of buying a Wahoo (I bought an H3)
A simple Google search for Kickr issues shows all kinds of threads just on TR discussing issues with the Kickr. Too bad it’s not even remotely true that this ISN’T an ongoing issue.
I’ve long ago given up on trying to make everyone happy. If they (or you) can’t read what I write and then want to complain about it later on, that’s frankly on them (or you).
I’ve explained in those various posts why someone (for example) could actually very easily go through five KICKR’s (primarily back in the day). Once you understand why, it makes sense engineering wise. I think I’ve been pretty clear that was a problem Wahoo had to fix. At this point, it seems like the number of people complaining about issues has largely evaporated.
Not in Fall 2019. We know the rates for last fall, but that’s about it. But one can simply look at the dates on various threads (here and otherwise), and see that by and large the problem has mostly gone away. People don’t really seem to remember how vibrant that discussion was last Dec/Jan.
In fact, the post a few above mine from Stringwise, while attempting to be witty, actually proves the point beautifully: Aside from this thread, almost everything else is pretty old.
There is certainly a few people dealing with it today, mostly it seems from older units that have had their stuff finally click over. And given KICKR sales/manufacturing have only increased since then, it shows the problem seems to be few and far between.
Not true and I understand that for you clicks on your website matter and since the Kickr sells a lot of units it’s important to you to sustain that revenue stream.
I will even help you out.
Here is the link on Ray’s website to save 10% on the Kickr:
I don’t have a dog in this hunt so you can stop trying to convince me that this isn’t a problem.
I don’t care to negatively impact your business but it is bothersome that you dive into these threads to defend Wahoo so emphatically.
Mod hat on:
- Please refrain from comments like this that flirt with violating the forum rules.
- These border on a personal attacks, and have no place in our group.
- Clean up future posts and show the proper respect to all forum members, or I will take action.
- Speak to people like you would in person. It sounds simple but the forum can be so much more valuable if we just show each other a little kindness.
- This builds on rule #1. The best arguments focus on the idea rather than the person who’s communicating the idea. Let’s strive to live in the “counterargument” and above. And opinion is important! This is cycling, lots of stuff is subjective.
The norm in telco equipment is in the order of 6000 ppm for complete sub-systems (a core router, for example), which forces one order of magnitude tighter requirements on parts and sub-systems - so in the hundreds of ppm order of magnitude. From what I know, automotive components quality targets are in the high tens to low hundreds of ppm. Keep in mind that different targets apply to different metrics - the limit on reject rate on receipt is much tighter than on ERI (Early return index), which is the metric closest to the issue referred to in this thread.
What that means is that you get the data from Wahoo, right? Where else are you getting this from. They are under no obligation to give you the raw statistics for you to analyze and dissect. Or, are you saying that you do? The highest probability is that you get warmed over data from Wahoo, and they are apt to bin them in any way they see fit. You are told what they want you to hear, in other words. As a company, I would do the exact same thing, to massage the PR. Only under a lawsuit would you get the real data.
Yeah, and this season’s trainers have been full of problems, for whatever reason.
The Wahoo bike not being able ti disable ERG smoothing? Did they not learn this from the 2014 Kickr? Wow. I hope there’s a firmware update to disable this, in the future, for people that invest $3K+. The 2014 Kickr never had an option to disable.
I’ve had successive units that had supposed to have been fixed, that exhibited problems, from the serial number they are post fix. Many posters here have. It’s beyond coincidental.
That simply isn’t consistent with what we see on various FB groups/forums on a daily basis. Obviously you expect that you’ll see more complaints than kudos on forums, but we/I didn’t see ANYWHERE near the volume of complaints on the 2014-2017 models. I simply can’t believe that the issues plaguing the 2018 KICKR has been resolved at this point.
I think the vast majority of issues we see at this point on those groups are from people with older units, not brand new off the shelf units (and that even mirrors this thread here).
As for 2014-2017 models, nope, we didn’t see the 2-3 main issues for the 2018 models (noise and chipset frying) - but, less we forgot the issue with the power meter becoming dislodged, which actually people had plenty of issues with. What’s old is new again, just a different trainer.
I’ve never really had a problem with Wahoo lying about numbers, even when it’s not to their advantage. All the numbers I see from them seem to match when I look at other sources as well. They could be lying, but again, I don’t think so. What I think they’ve misunderstood (and still do to this day), is the impact of the issue on customer perception. And this thread is a perfect example of that. For example, the lack of a KICKR '19 (however small an update could have been), would have at least made people wonder if it’s ‘finally solved’, versus the never-ending perception (rightly or wrongly) that the KICKR18 is still broken.
RE: ERG Mode Smoothing on KICKR bike
They’re set to update that in a firmware update (no timeframe specified). Keep in mind, the 2014 version never had that issue initially actually, it wasn’t till V2 that they introduced it (down the road I think the 2014 version had a firmware update that matched V2, but I haven’t pulled it out in a long time).
Curious that new off the shelf don’t have the issue. When I say that, “new off the shelf don’t have issues”, after one failure, you would think you would get a new off the shelf or guaranteed tested (well, they’d tell you it was tested but not guarantee). I’ve walked mine back into REI and swapped for a new off the shelf last year when it was at the worst only to have that “new off the shelf” fail in 30 days. When a Kickr failed, they would send you a “tested” unit. How can that failed and another and another. I agree, it’s calmed down from last year. I’ve got someone using my 5th Kickr replacement with no word on issues yet, so it’s probably resolved in my case. I picked up a neo 2 and have had no issues. I was curious about the neo 2t but looks like it has that initial growing pain that most do.
Just to give you an idea where I’m at, I purchased in the very beginning, September 2018. First one died in 30 days, returned to REI, that died in another 30 days. Started to get a little concerned about the Kickr lasting, returned it for the H2, (that Kickr has no issues at that point) didn’t care for the H2 and picked up another Kickr. Third one died, piked up the fourth 11/6, replaced it with my fifth on 2/5/2019 (made it the longest). Fifth lasted until 4/30 when it died and was replaced. So the sixth (my mistake earlier, thought it was five) is still in use. I just kept getting that 3%. I’ve kept this, the receipts, serial number and videos of each one. Doesn’t matter any more, I’ve moved on, some day I’ll delete that folder but I’ll never forget the eight months I’ve dealt with the Kickr.
If that’s the case, how do we explain the replacement/warrantied units coming straight from Wahoo with the same issues? Sometimes 3, 4, 5 replacements before getting a good unit?
The repeated replacements people are still having to deal with TODAY is definitely disconcerting and do not provide me, as a person looking to make a new trainer purchase, with confidence in purchasing a new Kickr trainer which IS a problem, as Ray mentioned.
I don’t think here - in fall 2019 - we’re seeing people still replacing units from summer or even now fall.
I think we’re seeing people replacing units from last winter/fall.
The whole point of this discussion is really about whether buying a new unit odd the shelf now will be a problem, not whether Wahoo had a problem. Clearly they did, they and their CEO admitted as such.
(Note that I’m specifically talking about one of the three well known issues, not some random one-off that falls under the could happen to any trainer brand/model type thing.)
See @Pedro_Prego’s post on this thread from June 28. Not sure if what he says is true or not, but it certainly makes sense and was my experience after going through 3 KICKRs. Once you send in a KICKR for replacement, you are not given a new one off the factory floor, but instead a previously returned/refurbished item from the factory floor, which puts a bandaid on the issue, but does not actually address the underlying problem (as it would require completely trashing the flywheel mechanism, per the thread above).
Anecdotally, I went through 3 KICKR '18s, my brother went through 3, I met a guy on a ride this year that went through 2 of them, and know someone else who had one fail as well. Ironically, even one of DCRs review videos from earlier this year had a KICKR failure—while he was recording the video for the review! Obviously my personal experience does not define a trend for everyone’s KICKR problems, but I think the problems are MUCH higher than the reported 3-4% failure rate.
I have no ill will towards Wahoo, and they are certainly capable of making great products, but it will be quite some time before I would consider getting another smart trainer from them.
Regardless of when the user purchased the original unit, I would think that the replacement unit shipped today from Wahoo would, if your theory is correct, not exhibit the same problems as those earlier units. Yet, we still hear of multiple users who are on their 4th or 5th unit shipped directly from Wahoo. How do you reconcile this?
I went through 3 as well but I guess that makes me a 3%-4%’er